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2-a-Day Strength Routine

I am currently on Chris Thib’s weight room strategies for fat loss program with 1.5 weeks left. I am going to deload for one week after that then start a 2 a day strength routine.

I would like help designing a 2 a day routine for learning how to do push-ups, pull-ups, and chins. Basically what I am saying is that I am currently not strong enough to do any of those exercises for even 1 rep with only my bodyweight. I am assuming am I going to gain some muslce mass, and that will due for my needs in that area. However, I also need to incorporate something to stay lean, aside from a clean diet.

I will be able to work out on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday two times a day, for however long as necessary, with about 5 hours or more in between sessions. On the rest of the days only once, but also for however long as necessary.

I was thinking of doing something like the keep your chin up routine, and also use resistance bands. (can anyone recommend some good ones I could buy over the internet?)

I am confused as to what frequency I should use since these are all upper body movements and 2 work out the chest. Should I do something like work on chins and push-ups on one day and then pull-ups on another?

Once I get the basic day split done, how do I decide what should be done earlier in the day, and what later? Should I work on the basic lift in the morning and then maybe do supporting exercises later in the evening?

Then I have to add a legs day, and possibly some sprinting to stay lean. Or would it be more beneficial to do a little bit of energy work after each, or some, sessions?

I am wondering if someone could talk me through this, point me to some articles, or help me make a routine. Tips, comments, anything.

Thanks guys.

How much do you weigh, how tall are you, and what is your diet like right now? I have some suspicions, but I’ll wait to see if I’m right. Also, both chins and pull-ups work your back, only the push-ups will work your chest. Also, past doing the lifts, what are your long term goals?

Fuck. I thought I edited this…I meant to write “Push-ups, chin-ups, and dips.” Not whatever I wrote. So I meant dips and push-ups would work my chest, and chin-ups, back.

First off I’m female. I always forget thats hard to tell over the net. I am 5’9" and I haven’t weighed myself in almost a year. However, I can bet my life I am between 145-155 lb, first thing in the morning.

My daily diet is around 1,300-1,700 calories, with atleast 120 gm of protein. I eat startchy carbs before and after workouts only. I eat 2-3 pieces of fruit a day, and between 3-8 servings of vegetables. I take atleast 4 gm of fish oil. The rest of my fat comes from lean red meat, eggs, sardines, and olive oil.

I have Surge and do not use it. PWO shakes seem to always disagree with my stomach. I am going to try again with my new routine. I seem to tolerate carbs pretty well, so basically I’d like to keep a similar diet, and just up the protein and carbs. I’m also interested in the protocol for using Surge 2x a day.

My long term goals are to get leaner (lose about 10 lb of fat) and stay that way, and to get really fucking strong. I also want to eventually master the olympic lifts. Right now I need to concentrate on getting stronger, period. I want to be able to manipulate my bodyweight.

What were your suspecions and were they correct?

I also meant to add I have a shoulder problem. I have excessive laxity in my joints and used to row incorrectly, which apparently, is a terrible combination. My right shoulder is in anterior tilt and my right side seems shorter than my left. Its not terrible looking but I’d really want to fix this problem. I’d also like to lift pain-free for many more years to come.

I suspected that you were female, and that you weren’t eating enough. I was right on the first one, looks like I might have been wrong about the second one.

Now for some advice. If I were you, I would hold off on using a PWO shake until you get to the point where you are spending more then 30 minutes lifting weights during you workouts. If you can’t get a single dip or push-up with body weight, I doubt very much that you need a PWO shake.

I would recommend that instead of focusing on just 1 bodyweight exercise, you do the follow 3 times a week. Chris Colucci put something similar together for a 13 year old, but I think it would work well for you too. If you can’t hit the number of reps, just keep trying to add 1 rep per workout until you can.

Squat 2x15 (No weight, keep both feet flat on the floor.)

Push-up 2x15 (On your toes, go until the chest almost touches the floor. If you can’t do a single full push-up, start with kneeling push-ups, and work up to 2x10, then start with full push-up for 2x5, and work up.)

Lunge 2x15 (Alternate legs, 1 rep left/1 rep right.)

Pull-up 2x15 (Have someone help you to the top and the slowly lower yourself down if you can’t do a single rep)

Plank 2x15-count (Hold the top part of a push-up, on the toes/arms straight, keep the whole body straight. Count to 15.)

Burpee/squat thrust 2x15

Once you can do that much (it really should only take a few weeks), take a look at Starting Strength. If you find that you’re having trouble progressing, try adding abot 200 callories to your daily intake. Even though 1700 cals is a pretty good starting point, you may find that you need more.

Also remember that if you’re eating clean (See Berardi’s 7 habits article), its very hard to gain fat while lifting. You may gain weight, but to be totally honest, if you can’t do a single push-up, you could probably use a little more muscle mass.
Good luck!

When I first started training and losing weight again about 3-4 months ago, I ate much less. About 1000-1200 cals daily with only 80-100 gm protein. Recently I’ve been getting 1,600-ish cals with up to 130-150 gm protein. I’m a chronic undereater. Whenever I start eating enough, I binge like theres no tomorrow. Its more difficult for me to moderate then to starve. Anyway, I’m working on it.

I see where you are coming from with this routine. I have always done some sort of split. Always. I really have wanted to try a lower volume, higher frequency type program. But here is the problem. Right now, I work out a lot. A lot a lot. In fact. I do bodyweight squats and lunges for my warm-ups. I do planks in between sets. I can do squat thrusts for 10 minutes straight. I can deadlift my bodyweight and front squat more than half. I need to train often and a lot to feel good. Training makes me feel fucking wonderful. So I may need more volume than that.

Heres the thing. Once I can do one rep of something, I can progress really easily. I can’t do a full push up nor can a single chin-up. I think I can do a single dip. I’ve been using a smith machine to elevate my hands for push-ups. I have also done the whole lowering thing for chin-ups. I am plateued in both of these, but I’m 90% sure its because I’m in the late stages of fat loss and am just drained from losing weight without stopping for 3-4 months.

The plan you posted made me think of something though. What do you think if every morning I worked on the three bodyweight lifts I want to be able to do with what you mentioned above, and some band work. And then in the evening pick 2 big lifts to further work on my strength. With maybe 5-15 minutes of complexes, sprinting, squat thrusting, or jump roping afterwards?

My eating and sleeping is on point, I don’t get sick very often anymore, and I love the gym. I really want to train as much as possible, if partially just to satisfy wanting to be in the gym as much as possible.

Welcome to T Nation! This is a great place to learn. You’ll find a lot of great help here as well as some great motivation. I don’t know if you had a chance to read it, but, in the Alpha section, I started a thread on training women and you might find some good info there. To save you a little time I will include a link to both that thread and another where someone aked about 2 a day training and it was covered. Best of luck and please don’t hesitate to ask anyone on here (myself included) if you have any questions!

Female training:

http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=2390853

Twice a day training:

http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=2390589

You know, I accidentally got to that thread by clicking ‘bodybuiding’ instead of ‘beginers’.

So I’ve spent my morning reading T-Nation, mostly about training women.

I love the way most people talk about women when the women don’t want to train properly. Its hysterical. When I was around 15-16 (I’m turning 20 in a couple days), I dieted and casually lifted weights until I was underweight and skinnyfat.

I knew there had to be more to this shit, I researched, and stumbled across ABCbodybuilding. I just kind of figured if bodybuilders can get themselves to such low bodyfat levels through training, so could I. They basically told me to eat more and lift heavier. I did. And that was that.

I should mention I used to, or kind of still do, have an eating disorder. This was post-ABC, and pre-T-Nation. Most of the habbits I have come from trying to lose weight to slowly die, not really to look hot.

Starvation isn’t as much as a diet to me, as it is a form of suicide. Somewhere along the line I regained the will to live. Lifting weights helped me find that, it is the anti-starvation, it is living. Basically, I’m still a little fucked in the head.

Anyways. Recently I’ve been realizing I’ve figured out a lot of things on my own completely accidentally. However, I don’t think its a coincidence. For example, I found a link to Chris Tib’s artlce ‘Having Fun with Women’ and read some of the basic differences between the differences in training men and women.

I have always stuck to slightly higher reps and sets than recommended. I would also never do singles, I would never load 100% of my abilities. Or like, the way I fell into doing isolation exercises to failure, but always stopped short a couple reps with complex ones.

Back to the routine I am trying to create. I was thinking something like working on the 3 bodyweight lifts in the AM, using eccentrics and bandwork, then doing 1 lift complex lift, 2-3 isolation exercises, and some energy systems work in the PM. How does that sound? Should I switch something around or add something? Or should I work from there?

Also, in the T-Cell thread, I don’t understand the splitting of the macronutrients. When it says .3 gm pro per lb of bodyweight, does it mean spilt that up before and after training? And the same thing with the carbs?

Hey, thanks to the both of you for responding.

Sounds like you have overcome a lot and you really have a great sense of training. I train at Westside Barbell here in Columbus so of course you get my blessings when it comes to band work:-)

Sled work in the PM would be the perfect addition, I like where your head is at. Could you elaborate a litlle on the three bodyweight lifts?

You are right in that your haevier stuff (more neurally taxing too) should be done in the AM and GPP, isolation, extra work and higher reps works well for the later session. Be sure you are getting your recovery in too but it sounds good to me.

To answer your question on the protein that is post workout. Good work and keep us posted!

I will be going to class on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays from 1pm to 4pm. I like to wake up at the same time each day, roughly around 8am. So I figure I’ll go to school after I wake up and eat, train, eat, finish my 3 classes, eat, then train again. Other than school, I don’t have any time restrictions that I don’t set for myself, meaning this can be slightly modified.

By the three bodyweight exercises, I mean chin-ups, dips, and push-ups. I meant to make that clear somewhere in the beginning, but I fucked up. I’d like to be able to do atleast 1 perfect rep of each. I’m sure it’ll be all downhill from there.

While doing that I’d like to actively do something to stay lean, and just slowly increase my numbers in my squat and deadlift. I also want to work on fixing my shoulder, and as part of that, I am not going to bench press for a while.

So I was thinking of doing something like this:

AM: eccentric only dips, chins, and push-ups (maybe inverted rows could help too?) and chins, dips with a band and incline push-ups

PM: 1 complex exercise, and do something btween 3x8 and 6x4. Or maybe 2 complez exercises, both 5x5, and I’ll alternate sets. I’m not sure. What do you think?

I’d also throw in some isolation work, if I feel necessary. Probably some calf raises or tricep extensions. One day a week I’d concentrate more on legs, and do sprints afterwards. On other days I’d probably jump rope. Would it be overdoing it if I jumproped or did time trials or something twice a day? Once in the morning and once in the evening, to keep my metabolism up?

I’d like to sled pulls or other GPP work, but I have no where to do it. They’re even remodeling the track at school, so I can’t even run out. Not that it sounds very appealing this time of year.

And what bands should I get??? I really want to start this program on the 25th, and I feel like I am running out of time to prepare!

[quote]LetMeFly wrote:
I will be going to class on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays from 1pm to 4pm. I like to wake up at the same time each day, roughly around 8am. So I figure I’ll go to school after I wake up and eat, train, eat, finish my 3 classes, eat, then train again. Other than school, I don’t have any time restrictions that I don’t set for myself, meaning this can be slightly modified.

By the three bodyweight exercises, I mean chin-ups, dips, and push-ups. I meant to make that clear somewhere in the beginning, but I fucked up. I’d like to be able to do atleast 1 perfect rep of each. I’m sure it’ll be all downhill from there.

While doing that I’d like to actively do something to stay lean, and just slowly increase my numbers in my squat and deadlift. I also want to work on fixing my shoulder, and as part of that, I am not going to bench press for a while.

So I was thinking of doing something like this:

AM: eccentric only dips, chins, and push-ups (maybe inverted rows could help too?) and chins, dips with a band and incline push-ups

PM: 1 complex exercise, and do something btween 3x8 and 6x4. Or maybe 2 complez exercises, both 5x5, and I’ll alternate sets. I’m not sure. What do you think?

I’d also throw in some isolation work, if I feel necessary. Probably some calf raises or tricep extensions. One day a week I’d concentrate more on legs, and do sprints afterwards. On other days I’d probably jump rope. Would it be overdoing it if I jumproped or did time trials or something twice a day? Once in the morning and once in the evening, to keep my metabolism up?

I’d like to sled pulls or other GPP work, but I have no where to do it. They’re even remodeling the track at school, so I can’t even run out. Not that it sounds very appealing this time of year.

And what bands should I get??? I really want to start this program on the 25th, and I feel like I am running out of time to prepare! [/quote]

The exercises you picked are definately do-able. I am not sure you will really need bands for them. At Westside we use “Jumpstretch Bands” Eccentrics are neurally demanding so I would do higher rep assistance work with them to avoid overtraining. You might do your BW work in the am and higher rep (12-15 reps) assistance work at night. Sled pulls are great, you could do them in a parking lot (that is what we do) or even on a field too. I might set things up like:
Day 1 Push Up focus/ rowing
PM assistance upper body

Day 2 Legs AM
PM GPP work

Day 3 Pull up/ Dip
PM assistance work upper body

just a thought, it looks like you are on the right track. Keep us posted.

Monday, AM: 25 eccentric push-ups, as many as I can at a time. 4x6 barbell row. 5 minutes squat thrusts.
Monday, PM: either 2x15 or 3x10 push-ups on incline. either 2x15 or 3x10 facepulls. forearm and grip work. 5 minutes jump-roping.

Wednesday, AM: 4x6 alternating front squat and deadlift. isolation work for glutes and calves.
Wednesday, PM: ~6 1/8 mile all out sprints on track.

Friday, AM: 25 eccentric chin-ups, 25 eccentric dips, both as many as I can at a time. 5 minutes jump-roping.
Friday, PM: either 2x15 or 3x10 for each chin-ups and drips with bands. forearm and grip work. 5 minutes squat thrusts.

Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday: ~2x week, possibly a swim, walk, 30 minutes on the elliptical, or short run.

How does that sound? Any comments? Is there any other work I could add to help me progress? Or any suggestions of any kind?

And I have a few questions about my shoulder. I think I may have mentioned it before, but my right shoulder is in anterior tilt. Is there anything I could do aside from performing exercises correctly to help with this problem? I’d ultimately would like to lift for many years to come and need to fix this imbalance.