T Nation

1st Cycle

If you can take your tiem then why don’t you do it naturally and show the ambition to do it natually… shock the body… change your routine… you don’t need roids to do what you’re saying…

[quote]MassiveClass wrote:
Great thread, no worries on the hijacking…

I’m wondering, P22, what would you consider the ideal 4 to 6 week newbie cycle? I have a good source now and a lot of options available…priorities being health and modest gains here…

Also, just a comment to those who say “do your own research…” I have done!..hundreds of articles, and I now have hundreds of opposing opinions…[/quote]

I would say it depends on your goals. Do you want more size or more strength?

Different drugs do different things. Anadrol is very good for size, EQ is very good for tendon/ligament strength. One of the things that’s often overlooked on this board, IMHO, is that muscle strength often increases faster than the tendons and ligaments can keep up if drugs are used. Under normal conditions tendon and ligament strength keep pace with muscle strength. Drugs accelerate the muscle development but often not the tendon and ligament strength.

Some drugs are good for decreasing body fat, like Anavar and Winny.

Set your goals then pick your drug.

RB

[quote]makavelii5773 wrote:
If you can take your tiem then why don’t you do it naturally and show the ambition to do it natually… shock the body… change your routine… you don’t need roids to do what you’re saying…[/quote]

Not bad advice. It’s just frustrating as hell sometimes…Thanks!

[quote]rubberbubba wrote:
Prisoner#22,

Thanks. Very informative. Just to be clear, though: your recommendation is no HCG post cycle?

Should I do Clomid? or just stick to TRIBEX?

RB[/quote]

O.k, Clomid or nolvadex is to be used post cycle, but only begin it once your blood levels of exogenous aas have fallen below physiological limits. If you use it before this point, recovery will not occur.

TRIBEX/ tribulus does not work like nolvadex or clomid. It works simmilar to HCG, causing an increase in testosterone to be produced by affecting the testes. That is why it can be taken while on cycle and have a positive effect on testicular size. you won’t see dramatic improvements like you do with hcg, but you also won’t have the side effects as you do with hcg.

As for taking it post cycle: testosterone production tends to limit the amount of Lutenizing hormone secreted by the hpta - the more tribex you use, the less lutenizing hormone your pituatary is going to secrete, however, the use of clomid or nolvadex should counteract this keeping lutenizing hormone from being suppressed.

conclusion: optimally use TRIBEX throughout your cycle and through pct. Use clomid or nolvadex optimally only after your blood levels are below supraphysiological levels. Calculating the halflives of your drugs to figure out this is key!

Finally optimally Up untill the point where levels drop below supraphysiological, and if your cycle included aromatising gear, you should be using an aromatase inhibitor, to keep blood estrogen levels, below supraphysiological levels at ALL times!

High levels of estrogen can KILL testicular cells! - which of course is just another reason not to use high doses of hcg, since half is converted into estrogen - boy I could go on about this forever :slight_smile:

[quote]ubiquitous wrote:
I think using HCG at a low dose is safe enough. 250iu is fine, and won’t desensitize to the degree that 1000iu and beyond does.

[/quote]

As I have state above, desensitization of the leydig cells, and testicular cell death are the risks of hcg therapy. I am of the opinion that the only way hcg therapy could be safe is if it were administered within a patch - where very low doses were absorbed on a continual basis.

Obviously not enough real peer-reviewed research has been completed in this area, since hcg therapy is mainly used in the medical and veteranarian clinical settings for short term spermatogenesis with the goal being conception, not post steroid cycle recovery.

[quote]mikekatz wrote:
I agree w/ ubiq…hcg should not be used after the clearance of androgens if hpta recovery/health is a priority.

I personally feel that 250iu-500iu used 10-14 days prior to androgen clearance is a good approach as it coaxes the testes back into a routine of producing test…TRIBEX throughout cycle is another alternative that I have never tried, but if p22 is suggesting it then it is probably worth a shot…and yes, clomid/nolvadex is a must after the androgens are at minimal levels–meaning exogenous test for example, is less than 100mg.

MK[/quote]

on short cycles, of say up to six weeks, hcg shouldn’t even be a consideration. Testicular suppression doesn’t even begin untill about the third week of a cycle so 3 weeks should not be enough to worry about hcg. Even with 8 week cycles hcg should even be considered. As I have said, using Tribulus is a better way to go.

As for the testosterone bridge. Do a search, I believe it was Cy Wilson who wrote an entire article about this about a year and a half ago.

[quote]T1gNaL1 wrote:
I’m not sure if i was being clear or not but my question was not regaurding PCT of short cycles as I think you were answering MK. I have done a short cycle of non-aromatizing steroids and the use of an ancillary was not needed, but I obviously used one in my PCT protocol. My question was regaurding short cycles with aromtizing agents. Does an ancillary NEED to be takin ED or can they be kept solely for PCT if Gyno does not arise?[/quote]

As I have stated before, irregardless of whether glands, and gyno appear, you don’t want your estrogen levels to rise above supraphysiologial levels! This will create greater suppression post cycle, and high levels of estrogen have been linked to testicular cell death in Men, and prostate cancer.

My recommendations: use an aromatase inhibitor if you are using aromatizing gear, and titrate it so that estrogen levels are maintained at normal amounts.

P22,

Got it. Thanks. I’ll be sure to use TRIBEX on the next cycle. The sad thing is, I actually had some, I just hadn’t run across this piece of advice yet.

RB

[quote]MassiveClass wrote:
Great thread, no worries on the hijacking…

I’m wondering, P22, what would you consider the ideal 4 to 6 week newbie cycle? I have a good source now and a lot of options available…priorities being health and modest gains here…

Also, just a comment to those who say “do your own research…” I have done!..hundreds of articles, and I now have hundreds of opposing opinions…[/quote]

With this being said, I recomend you stick to low aromatising/ short acting AAS for your cyle.

Some good stacks for shorties could be:

Test prop with femara.

Test prop, dbol and femara

Test prop, Winstrol and femara

Masteron, Winstrol, boldenone prop

Anavar, Winstrol, proviron

Anavar, winstrol, proviron, dbol

Primo, masteron, winstrol

NPP, test prop, dbol, winstrol. with femara.

These are just some, that come to mind. the key is keep the injectables short acting. Primo is O.K. because it is very mildly suppressive.

4 weeks of orals isn’t enough to cause liver damage so please nobody even bother to comment on this :slight_smile:

Stay away from tren, as it is extremely suppressive, and not needed for a first cycle.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Just wanted to say thanks for all info on here and the PMs. Even though I’ve been at it for a while, I’ve decided to keep researching and revisit this early next year.

For now, I’m going to try the Alpha Male / Carbolin 19 / Methoxy-7 stack and see how I do with that…