T Nation

1st Cycle


#1

Hello all-

I've been reading these articles for some months before posting. Excellent info on here...thanks!

My friend has helped me plan a beginner's cycle: 1cc each of Deca and Sostenon for 10 weeks. I'm also planning to have Clomid on hand for after and possibly during.

Can anyone comment on this cycle? What can I expect? Is it a good plan for a beginner? My goals are very modest here.

And also (I can already hear the snide comments coming) is it possible/realistic to just do one cycle for a boost and then give it up? I'm a very disciplined person...just looking for that extra boost we all want.

Oh, I'm 6'4" and have grown from 180's up to about 210 naturally over a couple years...

Thanks for the help...


#2

How old are you? 250mg of test and 200mg of deca a week for 10 weeks. You can expect your endogenous test to totally stop working and minimal gains. frontload 1000mg of test and if you choose deca 600mg of it the first week. For the next 6 weeks after that do 500mg test and 300mg deca. I would use at least 25mg d-bol a day for a minimum of 2 to 3 weeks at the start of this cycle.

Since you have no idea how your body will react to the test have at the very least nolvadex on hand preferably a-dex. I would swap the deca out for EQ, fina or even primo. PCT clomid for a month at least frontloaded at 300mg and then 100mg a day after. That cycle will get you results. Yes it is possible to use gear once and then never again, it all depends on your personality.


#3

Thanks so much!

I guess I should be more clear... I am 27. I'm really only looking for modest gains and to harden up a bit. I've basically been fighting the same plateau for nearly a year, and I'm getting majorly frustrated.


#4

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#5

I would certainly up the doseages to 500mgs Sust/week and 400mgs of either Deca or more preferably EQ. Get some HCG along with your clomid to wrap it up. Then eat like it's going out of style...seriously.

As far as doing one cycle and stopping, I don't think that's a big deal, especially if you don't like sticking yourself. It is however really nice to see that what would have taken you a year or more to do naturally you have surpassed in just a couple of months, which tends to make you want to do it again. But it is not addictive like cigarettes.

Also the sust/deca is going to take a couple of weeks to kick in so you might want to start off with an oral for the first couple of weeks.

FatSensei


#6

Thanks busyboy-

Can you recommend a better cycle for my goals? One of my friends has that puffy doughboy look from his last cycle...not that attractive lemme tell ya...

Again...looking for modest gains and leaning and/or hardening. 'preciate it!


#7

like others have said those dosages are pretty low and the gains would most likely be modest.

bump the test dosage to 500 mg/week, and swap the deca for EQ, run it at least 300 mg/week. throw in a decent frontload and thats all you will need AAS wise to meet your goals.

structure should go something like this:
week 1: 1000 mg Test, 600 mg EQ
weeks 2-10: 500 mg test, 300 mg EQ

definately have some nolva on hand. for this cycle i think you could get away without running an anti-e, just make sure you have some on hand if sides appear.

for PCT i'd suggest trying the 2 weeks clomid followed by 2 weeks nolva as Mikekatz regularly suggests. or you could just run clomid for 3-4 weeks.....and i personally think the 300 mg frontload of clomid on day 1 is complete overkill. i've noticed absolutely no difference recovery wise between frontloading clomid or just starting at 100mg ED.....the only difference being shitty clomid sides with the frontload.


#8

Since your goals are very modest, you can go a couple different routes. You can do a 4-6 weeker w/ compunds like test prop,fina,anavar,etc all dosed relatively high, or go w/ a test cyp/eq combo for a longer duration and moderate-low dosages...so the question for you is how quick are you looking to get results? Sides wil pretty much be the same whichever path you choose, with the exception to hpta recovery--4-6wks is much easier to recover from than 10.

MK


#9

No rush here really. Would love to gain 10 or 15 pounds and break through some barriers. Willing to take all the time necessary to get everything ready. Also, would love it if it wasn't totally obvious i'm jacked up :wink:


#10

Since this is your first cycle and you won't be cycling again - so you say, I have to agree with MK - keep the cycle short, and use shorter acting compounds.

My reasoning is three fold. First off most of the gains acquired on a cycle come in the first six weeks (if done properly). Second, the longer you stay on, the more permament damage you will do to your hpta/ testes, and the more likely you will be more desensitized to your own natural test production, and also recovery to full natural test production potential will take longer.

Thirdly the above 2 reasons will increase your risk of 'staying on all year round'. as many end up doing because of pct failure. Many individuals actually say they cycle on and off taking time off = time on but in reality for 3/4 of the time they are off they are still actually 'on' - I could go into this further but I won't here.

Obviously every other day injects are a pain in the ass - especially for a newbie, but if you use long acting compounds such as deca or Eq, it will stay in your body for a long time post cycle, impairing your ability to recover. If you do so, don't bother begining your nolva or clomid pct for six weeks after your last injection, as begining before this point will be futile since technically you'll still be 'on'. This kinda brings me back to the 'third point'.

As for ancillaries, if taking test in supraphysiological levels you need to be using an anti-e. I recomend femara while on and novadex while off.
Once those glands develop it is too late, they'll be there forever.

I also recomend using TRIBEX/ tribulus - it is much like hcg except a natural herb. I'm sure you are familiar with it, it will help stave off testicular atrophy to a small degree. Stay away from hcg however, as it will just cause further suppression.

So in conclusion use just short acting injectables and orals for a short period of time. Don't slouch on ancillaries either. Give us a list of what short-acting injectables and orals you have available to you, and I am sure we can come up with a good 4-6 week cycle for you.


#11

Prisoner#22,

Your comments bring up some questions for me. I just finished a Deca/EQ cycle. Can you elaborate on how long these drugs will stay active in my system?

Also, I was planning on using HCG beginning four weeks after I finished. You comments suggest an alternative starting six weeks out. Can you elaborate?

BTW, I did 10 weeks with 100mg/week, each. I used Anadrol-75's and 100mg/week of Test Enanthate for the first four weeks of the cycle.

For the others reading this: I got a good bit of additional size due to the A75's. The Deca/EQ stack got me very good strength gains with not much gain in size. I didn't drop much of the A75 weight gain, however.

I've been off a week (which means I'm not off) and I've lost no weight. Yet.

RB


#12

Here is a very simplified explanation:

You will have to elaborate on what your doses of eq and deca were, but I can tell you that with 15 day halflives - give or take, combined with the accumulation of these drugs throughout your cycle, that it is not unreasonable to estimate that you will still have supraphysiological levels of AAS in your body up to and beyond the six week mark. I am sorry to say but you have a accumulation of AAS which means exponential sums of each injected dose need time to clear your body.
As long as levels remain supraphysiological, you can take all the clomid, nolvadex, eurocoma or whatever. it won't help you recover, because you are actually still 'on'.

HCG is another big bad brute that many including myself have paid the price by using. Hcg is an analog of LH which is secreted by your pituitary gland in response to stimulation from your hypothalmus where receptors sense the need to produce more testosterone. The hormone binds with receptors of your leydig cells in your testes. This stimulates production of testosterone and maturation of sperm.

The problem with hcg use is that it is very easy to 'burn out' the leydig receptors - causing them to become 'desensitized' to normal LH production from your pituitary gland.
Hcg has such a small halflife that doses must be incredibly small not to cause damage. Unfortunately most people just inject 3000 iu's at a time, when 30 ius would be much safer. This makes administration impracticle however because of the short half life, it would have to be injected frequently - such as every few hours.

So if you use HCG you will be creating suppression on two levels: - first your htpa, and secondly your leydig cells.

This further complicates you problems.

Many people ask the question, so if this is the case, why dose my vial have 10,000, or 5,000 iu in it?

well plain and simple, hcg is used mostly for veteranarian use, and by fertility clinics. The goal is to increase production of sperm, testicular health in the aftermath is not a concern, as the end justifies the means, and the goal is conception, not testicular health, or pct.

so is there a alternative?

why yes there is, instead of hcg, while on cycle continue to use TRIBEX. This may keep the testes from completely shrinking. In addition to this at cycle's end using a taper with testosterone, will keep your test levels high enough to support your libido, but as you drop the exogenous dose slowly, provided of course you have been using aromatase inhibitors throughout the cycle (preferably) and there is not a whole wack of estrogen accumulated and sitting up in the ol' htpa waiting for their turn to bind to the ER - as you decrease the exogenous dose slowly, your endogenous production should pick up the slack. This will give your testes time to grow back to size, and you will only still have one level of suppression to deal with, not two.

granted this approach is best suited for long cycles, as shorties tend to be better quit cold turkey.

The final word is that all pct must only be initialted after the steroid has sufficiently cleared enough.

I see too many BB's on these boards planing their pct to begin the day after their last shot of enanthate. I will say it now - don't bother for a full month! you are just wasting your effort, and your money.


#13

Prisoner#22,

Thanks. Very informative. Just to be clear, though: your recommendation is no HCG post cycle?

Should I do Clomid? or just stick to TRIBEX?

RB


#14

p-22,

Awsome advice as always. It's great to see you still around and posting, I almost always learn something from one of your posts. Thanks!

Monopoly


#15

WTF????

Noone should do HCG post cycle regardless. It's SUPPRESSIVE.

Just TRIBEX for PCT? WHAT?????? Who said that? I don't see it anywhere.

P#22 is talking about using TRIBEX instead of HCG during the cycle, to stave off testicular atrophy. High doses of HCG (or long periods of use) burn out your Leydig cells.

I think using HCG at a low dose is safe enough. 250iu is fine, and won't desensitize to the degree that 1000iu and beyond does.


#16

P22 you posted above

"As for ancillaries, if taking test in supraphysiological levels you need to be using an anti-e. I recomend femara while on and novadex while off.
Once those glands develop it is too late, they'll be there forever"

In short cycles eg 4 weekers using prop. Should the ancillaries be takin ED regardless of signs of gyno? Or is it safe to keep them on hand in case gyno arises


#17

I agree w/ ubiq...hcg should not be used after the clearance of androgens if hpta recovery/health is a priority.
I personally feel that 250iu-500iu used 10-14 days prior to androgen clearance is a good approach as it coaxes the testes back into a routine of producing test...TRIVEX throughout cycle is another alternative that I have never tried, but if p22 is suggesting it then it is probably worth a shot...and yes, clomid/nolvadex is a must after the androgens are at minimal levels--meaning exogenous test for example, is less than 100mg.

MK


#18

I'm not sure if i was being clear or not but my question was not regaurding PCT of short cycles as I think you were answering MK. I have done a short cycle of non-aromatizing steroids and the use of an ancillary was not needed, but I obviously used one in my PCT protocol. My question was regaurding short cycles with aromtizing agents. Does an ancillary NEED to be takin ED or can they be kept solely for PCT if Gyno does not arise?


#19

Calm down... I did not do TRIBEX during the cycle. That's in the past. I can't go back. My question really was: "do you think it will do any good now?". I got the point about HCG.

I'm going to do Clomid or Nolvy depending upon which is available.

There are newbies and then there are newbies. I've done my fair share of research on this board and applied it to two cycles during which I've gotten excellent results with a minimum of side effects. Actually, I've had no evident side effects besides a little bacne. I'm planning on a followup lipid panel six weeks post cycle. I'll post differences.

Sorry to hijack the thread.

RB


#20

Great thread, no worries on the hijacking...

I'm wondering, P22, what would you consider the ideal 4 to 6 week newbie cycle? I have a good source now and a lot of options available...priorities being health and modest gains here...

Also, just a comment to those who say "do your own research..." I have done!..hundreds of articles, and I now have hundreds of opposing opinions...