T Nation

1st Cycle

Whats up guys? I’m 22,6’2",230lbs and around 14%bf. Been training seriously for 5yrs. This is going to be my first cycle. P22 has helped me construct this cycle based on my goals. My goals are to put on some mass and to lose some bf. I understand that both are going to be affected by my diet. So here is my cycle.

Week 1
Test Enanthate 1000mg
armedex 1mg eod

Week2
Test Enanthate 750 mg
armedex 1 mg eod

Week3
Test Enanthate 500mg
armidex 1 mg eod

Week4
Test Enanthate 500mg
armidex 1 mg eod
Winstrol 75mg ed

Week 5
Test Enanthate 500mg
armidex 1 mg eod
Winstrol 75mg ed

Week 6
Test propinate 70mg inj. ed
armidex 1 mg eod
Winstrol 75mg ed

Week 7
Test propinate 70mg inj. ed
armidex 1 mg eod
Winstrol 75mg ed

Week 8
Test propinate 70mg inj. ed
arimidex 1 mg eod
Winstol 75mg ed

Week 9
armidex 1 mg eod
Winstrol 75mg ed
Week 10
Nolva 60mg ed or Clomid 100mg ed
(continue for 3+ weeks)

The reason for the switch to prop is so that I can start my pct sooner since the half life is so short. I also started the winny late,on P22’s advise, because there is a certain amount of ‘synergy’ that occurs between class 1 and class 2 steroids and happens best when both blood levels are as high as possible. So the first 3 weeks of my cycle is just for increasing blood levels. What do you guys think?

Bro, everything is on point 4 the cycle p22 has designed 4 you…The only inclusion I’d make would be hcg ran at 500iu. 10 days prior to starting pct. Good luck on the cycle!

MK

What do I think? I think it looks like you were smart and talked to probably the most knowledgeable guy on the board and he outlined you and very good first cycle.
Good luck and tell us how it goes.
DA

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IMO this cycle is overkill. This is your first cycle and i just can’t justify a 1000mg test frontload. For what? Sure blood concentrations will rise quickly and you’ll bloat like crazy and hope the arimidex couters it which it porpably will depending on your dosage.

But the issue is this. You do not need those ammounts. I know you propably won’t listen but i’ll tell you again. You don’t need those ammounts. You have engough gear for me to make 2 cycles out of. What’s you goal? You can gain 20lbs with half the AS. Do you realistically need to gain more per cycle? Don’t you feel it’s important to see how your body responds to different dosages? If you start with 1000 mg where do you go next? Your next cycle will start will have you going 2000 mg weekly front load.

I woult cut your dosages in half, eliminate the frontload and focus on diet and training and watch the magic happen. Your using more gear then Frank Zane and you’re in your fist cycle bro. I don’t mean to annoy you with preaching. But this is an issue you need to think long and hard about. In my 8 years of experience with this, EVERYONE i knew gained 20-30lbs in their first cycle NEVER going above 500mg Test weekly as long as the diet and training was on cue.

Another issue i like to make AS rookies aware of is that i recommend AGAINST stacking, atr least in the beginning. Think about it, you have something like Winny and Test. Both can cause significant sides, especially hair loss and you’ll never know which compound caused what. So i like to start rookies of with single compounds at low to moderate dosages. Start with a test only cycle, then next cycle do a faster acting test and add some Winny. Make 2 cycles out of your gear. Never look at any cycle and think this will be your only one, and don’t go into the mentality that THIS cycle will be the THE cycle that will get you where you want to be, because it won’t. Cycling is something that takes time just like training without it, albeit a little less time, but the shortcut that most people expect is just not there when all is said and done.

PS.

Plan your PCT well.

Woa calm down fella.

He is using a front load of 1 gram and then doing what you said. You said everyone you know did well with out going of 500mg ew and he is not going over that mark.

Also winny shouldn’t cause hair loss by itself since it is not a DHT base nor dose it convert to it. It is also not an overly powerful non-test androgen like tren, this means it shouldn’t give androgenic sides either. However it can make the other drugs it is used with more powerful by pushing them into the receptor sites.
In my first injectable cycle of, test/deca/winny, I saw my best results latter on in the cycle. The 2 longer acting drugs kicked in and then I added the winny during the taper off pretty close to this guys cycle plan.
My last complaint about your post is that you put p.s. plan your pct well.

His PCT is laid out well enough. If anything more he could put in some HCG like MK stated early.

Well everyone is entitled to their opions/theories on how to do things and that is mine.

DA

I agree with DA…A 1g frontload is actually not that much considering enanthate has a half-life of ~5-7 days…He will also be running test by itself for the first 3 weeks, which means he WILL be able to tell where the sides are coming from…I agree with you gregus, that astronomical dosages aren’t needed to deliver results, but if you’re going to be shutting your endogenous test levels down, you might as well be including supraphysiological amounts of AAS to get the most bang for your buck.

MK

Frontloading:

If you do the math even if the enathate ester has a five day halflife (which I am a firm believer it is closer to 10 days) this would have at most 70 mg releasing into the body per day. Since I feel the half is closer to 10 I am more of the belief that it is actually closer to 35-40 mg per day releasing, which isn’t a lot. And this is with the front load. Without, we are looking at 15-20mg per day releasing.
That is why the first two weeks are loading weeks; to ensure that therapeutic blood levels are reached quickly.

So what is the real reason behind frontloading? It’s simple, the sooner your blood levels reach the target zone, the faster the gains are going to arive, and the shorter the cycle needs to be. The degree of suppression is not tied to the amount of AAS taken but rather to the length of time on AAS! That is why there is a frontload to this cycle, and also why shorter length esters and orals are incorporated later on in the cycle - to ensure the length of suppression is minimized.

As for water retention: Water retention is tied to estrogen and largely calorie intake: Carbohydrates. If you reduce the carbs, and titrate the aromatase inhibitor you dramatically reduce water retention.

Here is a personal analogy:

as of right now I am taking 2 grams of test prop per week, along with 1 mg of femara per day. I am dieting for a contest, and at 7 weeks out I am at 6% bf and falling and I am dry as a bone.

I understand front loading and see it’s merits but i am not a big fan of it, so i don’t recommend it to anyone but do give it as an option left to their discretion.

Also, i never understand the purpose of using over 1 G of gear. Those ammounts are just not necessary for anyone unless you’re looking to compete in BB and plan to only look the way you want to look when they’re “on”.

As far as supression is concerned that is highly debatable in the dosage versus duration issue, but i tend to agree that duration is the bigger killer of your hpta here. I am a fan of low dosage usage and looking great when off and not looking forward to the next cycle because it’s a loop that DOES NOT STOP for a long time.

Winny - Winstrol is considered a light anabolic, but make no mistake it’s a very powerfull compound. Hairloss is a very real and powerfull real world side effect of this anabolic. If you have concerns i would tread lightly on this one, as you’ll regret it fast. Personally i lost noticable ammounts of hair on only 50mg twice weekly as have others, but some did not. Hence the need to break into cycling easy, IMO.

Why is he using Clomid in his PCT? It’s a very risky drug for men to use and i’ve read numerous complaints of users suffering or blurred vision, pernmanent floaters in their field of vision and the occasional mood swings. And to be fair it’s not all that effective when compared to Nolvadex. 10mg of nolvadex stimulates Test production like 150mg of clomid, and this was proven in numerous studies. I don’t know why people still lean toward clomid, bad habits just take time to die.

I would suggest 40 mg of nolva with HCG, then in the later weeks taper to 20 mg nolva and down to 10 by the very end of the PCT. I have used Nolvadex exclusively in my PCT’s and it worked out better then it ever did with clomid, and i certainly don’t miss the hot flashes.

Greg, if you looked at my pct clearly, then you would have noticed 60mg day of nolva OR 100mg day of clomid. If I did use clomid over nolva, it would be because i’ve read that clomid is a better test stimulater than nolva and I have never heard of losing hair on winny. Keep in mind i’m only going to lose hair if i’m geneticaly prone to it.

P.S. I think I have my PCT covered, thanks

Get ready to hit 260 pal! If you train hard and eat enough, you should hit that number with little or no increase in bodyfat. I am in the last week of a 10 week test enth/winny cycle. My cycle looked ALOT like yours, the main diff? I did not switch to prop as I had no access to it. I also ran the winny at 50mg/day. I started at roughly 212, currently at about 243. I hope you have some big clothes, because none of yours are going to fit very soon. Looks good to me!

Check out my avatar bro, and notice that I have a full head of hair. I have never used any dht blockers or anything. Bottom line is this: if you have the Male hair pattern balding gene, and you decide to use AAS, you better just shave your head. If you don’t then don’t worry about it.

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
Hairloss is a very real and powerfull real world side effect of this anabolic.

Check out my avatar bro, and notice that I have a full head of hair. I have never used any dht blockers or anything. Bottom line is this: if you have the Male hair pattern balding gene, and you decide to use AAS, you better just shave your head. If you don’t then don’t worry about it.[/quote]

And here in lays the conondrum, you wont know if you have the gene unless you activate it early by using AS. And DHT is by far not the only substance to cause MPB, that is only a % of the population and much needs to be studied on this issue still. But i digress, if you feel that Winny does not cause hair loss because it did not cause it to you specificaly then i guess this debate is a moot point. And anyway it seems that my approach to AAS is very different from yours, but not necessarily better, depending on your goals. So as long as the bloodwork looks good and you reach your goals relatively sides free then i guess it does not matter. I’m just a fan of low dosages for the rookie user, that’s all.