T Nation

1st Cycle: Test E 750mg Stasis/Taper w/ Serm


#1

putting this on here for some review

stats
22yo
5 10'
currently 210lbs ~11% been chilling for lifting for few weeks, i can fill out to 216-217 mourning weight in about 2.5 weeks from goin back on diet. Iv read a little bit about priming yourself for a cycle, so i been lifting alot less, only compound movements low reps 4x4 5x5. and eating alot less. just heeling up, i do this naturaly too and it seems to kickstart my bulking nicely

lifts/PRs
bench: 315x6
squat: 495x2 (ass to heals)
deadlift: 585x1

DIET for this bulking season: yes i do eat the same lame shit ED have been for like 3yrs so im used to it
3lbs chicken breast--1.5 cups uncooked rice(add 4 tblsp canola oil when i cook it)--- 8serv whey (27g each)---50-100g pw maltodextrin w/whey--4tbsp peanut butter--4 cups brocoli w/ 2 small carrots per cup in there-- take 15gs fish oil a day.

i have 4 solid meals of chicken and rice. the 4 shakes(counting pw) have 2serv whey, 1tblsp PB, 1 cup of brocoli and carrots all blended up MMMM:) haha everyone thinks im nuts but its how i get my nutrients in so fuk it.
Macros: 490ish protein 360ish carb 130ish fats

this is roughly 4700 calories. feel like thats a good startin point. ill just add oats to the shakes to increase cals
last yr i was 222lbs waking up but about 14% body fat average(caliper) eating about 5000k a day but i used maltodextrin a little too much. tryin to keep carbs lil less for bloat and have more quality fats
so im natural until this point, feel like my gains have slowed down alot, i mainly look more muscular(mature muscle) than last yr but weight has kinda stayed the same(looks like i got few LBM gains here and there). so i feel like im ready for gear. iv done my research. now for the least important part: wat im using

GP test e 250mg/ml
week 1-2 front load a gram 500 2x week
week 3-14 750mg test e
week 15 500mg test e Got some gp oral tren i mite thro in here at 250-500mcg for weeks 13-15 (will have bloodwork done)
week 16-17 nothing
weel 18-23 stasis (100mg test e)
week 24-30 taper (80,60.50,50,40,30,20) added a week to the suggested 6weeks just for safety coming down

week 6-15 HCG 250iu 2x week
week 1-17 letro: broke tabs and put into capsules at ~.3mg EoD have alot tho may bump it to ~.6 see how i feel..also taking .3 e4d right now to get it in my system before i Pin up, startin 2 weeks out
week ~20-23 20mg nolva ED
week 24-30 Clomid-------- week 24 75mg ED(day 1 200mg) week 25 50mg ED week 26 25mg ED week 27 ~12.5mg ED 28-30 none
i have a exel spread sheet wiht all this shit on there to follow everyweek , im not missing a single dam beat

ill try and get some sylicilic acid for acne, and 7-hydroxy-DHEA for cortisol levels during stasis/taper
wud love to have proviron 50mg day for week 13-15 to free up the test--see if i can get it

will turn this into a log once i start, with starting pictures after 2 weeks (gatta fill up from my lay off to look good! haha ) , howver not extensive mainly will keep track of key the lifts each week and my weight (go by feel on iso exercises weights dont matter realy there)

Reasons for test dosages: most pep on these boars like to preach a moderate dose etc, i feel like im mature, no my body very well, and am a pretty decent size and wouldnt BLOW UP on averge 500mg week dose. also, i dont plan on using gear alot and wud ike to get teh most out of my cycle and probly stay away from gear for a while. im not greedy, going for a certain look, wanna be able to maintain 225lbs very lean w/o gear. FOR NOW neways ha

COMMENTS?? mainly on how to run CLOMID during the taper period... i feel like thers no specific here, so im goin with what i think is best based on my readings/understandings but suggestions plz(only if you have actualy done the taper, i can read too so i dont need re iteration of txt)

GOALS: 240lbs keeping BF below 14%, balanced look and get my upper body to match my legs


#2

theres others on the board much more knowledgeable than me , infact i dont know much and i learn from others. however a general consensus is that first time around just stick to test. however youll get the guy whole kick start with dbol or throw some winny or even var. but the oral tren is a big no no. especially for the first time around and especially because its extremely extremely harsh on the liver (the oral version). in my humble opinion , it is just not worth it because you can prlli achieve the look you want without putting that poison into ur body.


#3

thing with using oral tren is not even about bloodwork, well i mean it is, but its also about liver values.


#4

yea bloodwork shows liver values
the oral tren is very harsh, thats why its up in the air and would only possibly come in the last 3ish weeks. i think the problem surrounding it is the same witha every other oral with high liver toxicity, people abuse the shit outa it. use it like u should, start liver supps a month out and al lt he way thru, drink ur water and i think one could easily and responsibly use this product the right way.


#5

I personally think the following:

Your proposed cycle is quite long. Dininishing returns is a risk. Id scrap the frontload... Urgency isn't an issue here, and id also pyramid the dose upwards periodically in line with your progress.

Alternatively you can do a mini cut mid cycle where you decrease calories and dose significantly to potentially reduce some of the adaptations your body will be making. Simular to how cheat days are benifixial on a diet but in reverse.

I don't think you need to run the clomid so high if it's pharm grade.


#6

personaly I think this looks pretty good. didnt read very clearly kinda ran through it but you seem to have the shit together. Im one to use bigger doses than the 'norm' also. I think 500mg would work well, but I also think 600-750mg isnt a big difference when it comes to sides. Seeing youre controling estrogen.

I think you would be fine running the cycle 12 weeks with the taper... At least see how it goes by that time.

Also on the frontload issue-I say go for it but shoot 750-1000mg day 1, then continue with 250mg eod or whatever. Could get test flu but this would get your levels up much faster than 500mg 2x week(which could still take 2ish weeks for blood levels to max out)

Might want to debate with yourself if you want to frontload 1G on day 1 for a first cycle-could make you feel like shit for a good week+..

Search bill roberts' thread for frontloading here. He breaks it down.


#7

Increasing dosage based off progress with long esters doesnt make much sense IMHO. It will take a good 3 weeks for him to notice any difference because its enanthate. OP-Start at a dose you choose from day 1. Then taper if you like, or get sides you dont want. Use AI as you have already planned on.


#8

Dude...WHAT? He's proposing to use Enanthate- why would you think he would have to inj EOD? Why do you think frontloading will make someone feel "like shit" ...and for a WEEK at that? And test flu?? Who are you?

I noticed quite a difference in terms of sides between 500 and 750mg. He doesn't need to go over 500mg for a first cycle. Especially when he's proposing to be on for 15 weeks- which I think is RATHER long for a first cycle.


#9

well Im deffinetly not gonna argue with you or anyone else on the way I feel, or have personaly experienced. And who am I? Why the question? If hes shooting 750mg/wk why not shoot roughly 200-250mg eod, and Why the fuck would it matter if its enanthate shooting eod? ALOT of users shoot long ester like enth eod.
Also, fronloading 'could' make someone feel shitty for a short period of time, didnt say they would(i didnt have any issues). Also-test flu aka sus flu go google it. pouring I boat load of androgens into your body in a short amount of time(750mg day 1) can cause the body to fight back in a defensive state temperarely resulting in light fever, and body aches along with smashed appetite. Alot of the time people notice it while using tne or prop cause of the fast release. I never said he needs to go over 500mg first cycle. but he sure could. just like I can go well over 350mg/wk like many have suggested. Now go Queef.


#10

He can easily shorten the cycle seeing he's using the taper-he doesnt need to fuck around with allowing the levels to drop for pct, And thats also his desision


#11

I'm with DaJa on this.
The more frequent you inject, the less sides you get especially on high doses even if it was Enanthate. Splitting 750mg of test Enanthate into 3 shot through out the week is good but splitting it into 4 is even better. This means stable levels, won't be alot of ups and downs.

oatein, 500mgs of test is good. 750mgs won't make that much of a difference for a FIRST TIMER.
This is only my opinion: you are still 22 so keep the high doses for later, if you start with 750 or 1g now, then how much will you need when you hit 30.

good luck


#12

forgot to ask, why aren't you starting your stasis on week 16?
Stasis starts the week after your last week on juice. I'm pointing this out cause in your cycle layout week 16-17 you wrote NOTHING


#13

i hear what you guyz are saying and i appriciate it and deffinately take what you are saying into consideration
i think i have thought this over TOO much, and am just going to stick to my plan , and concentrate on my liftin and eating.

i realy like the "cut in the middle" idea... makes sense to me , i will most likely will give it a go for 2 weeks then come back the next week higher than i was before the cut (calorie wise).

if i reach my goals i may cut the cycle short. nothing is 100%. if i dont need to run longer i wont, simple.

btw, today was my first shot. 2cc. right cheek. was a tad sore then went away. feels fine right now.
today was chest: flat: 135 for 2 sets warm up. 225 for 1 set. 265 for set of 6. 275 for two sets of 7.
lost about 3 reps off 275 from when i slowed down. not worried tho , i felt my tris weaken which is wat i ALWAYS feel after chilling for a while, they just pump up too quick and i loose lockout power
all ican say is it feels good to be EATING AGAIN!.
changes to diet: i think im going to eat 2 meals ground sirloin, 2 meals fish. i ate alota read meat over the holidays. shit just makes me feel GOOD idk how to explain it even while barely lifting i feel VERY full, but i have never realy made it a staple in my diet because of cost, but i deff am now that i my restaurant depot card :slight_smile:


#14

I think it's a good idea to have a clearing period so that when you begin the stasis you are not being suppressed. This is Bill Roberts' idea, and it has worked for me.


#15

I've read about the clearing period in the end of prisoners post but only couple of guys reported that it worked for them. On the other hand, the original protocol worked for everyone that used it.
so just stick with prisoners original protocol for someone that don't have that much experience and do some changes on the second or third time using this protocol.


#16

yea the clearing period is from posts on prisoners thread.
got some updates: im NOT doing 15-16 weeks. cutting it down to 12, doin eod shots. i enjoy pinning up:) i no eod is overkil for enth but w.e more stable blood levels and i dont mind. Shot 2ccs today, i no i dint do 1000 on the first day for my front load but i honestly just didnt want to.

neways will do 1cc eod , so little more test , shorter cycle.
taking more fish oils, with the fish oils and omega 3 canola im getting about 12,000mg omega 3s. upping my letro to .6mg eod should deff keep E under control
Back workout today was great, good intensity. finished with dead lifts a 315lb to failure. got around 20 or something stopped counting past 15

all this food has me feeling full as hell. the shakes between meeals are making it easier to consume the whole food meals. gettin down my 5000 cals a day with ease,
ill weigh in after the 1st two weeks are over which ill consider my actual starting period weight after fillin up with food to base what gains i am making
later


#17

no gym today, inj sites are KILLLLLLLing me and dont think i could sit on a military bench(shoulder day)
also very VERY tired all day, mybe because i didn sleep good last night or becuase i have test flu probly . just feel shity, getting all my meals in today and acutaly added 100g maltodextrin to one of my shakes for hell of it. so 5,400 cals today, feel great in those terms neways
tomarrow is shoulders or arms.. see which feels more ready to blast


#18

great arms day yesterday, shot right shoulder, felt sore feels better today, lot nice than glute shots imo.. feel solid as hell already with eating, took pics before gym and at gym ill post later than ill try and hvae some1 take some at end of week 2 as i said. see where im at. pcc


#19


arm pic from gym other day


#20


arm pic from 01/06