T Nation

1st cycle - Oxandrolone, PCT

Hi all. I’m male, mid 30’s, 5’4" 165 lb, about 12% bodyfat. Lifting consistently since around age 20, and a little here and there before that as a teen. (I’ve been reading this website since it began in the spring of 1998, and I read everything by TC and Poliquin in MM2K before that, so don’t give me shit about posting AAS questions despite being “brand new” to the forum!)

I recently got connected with some legit pharmaceutical anavar. Planning to use about 60 mg per day for 8 weeks. Experienced acquaintances have suggested slightly more, like 80 and even 100 mg daily, but due to my wariness over side effects I want to be careful and stay a bit lower; and while $ isn’t much of an object, the cycle would be pretty pricey as is. (Plus, the guys are a few inches taller and 20-30 lb heavier than me, so am I right in thinking I could get decent results with a somewhat lower dose?)

Now based on what I’ve read around here before, I know many are immediately going to look at my plan and say “useless”, “weak”, “expensive” blah blah blah…and I know that to an extent their criticisms are correct, but bear in mind

1…I DON’T want a lot of size gain, especially “really obvious” size gain. I just want some help losing bodyfat, some hardening, and some help gaining strength / plateau-busting (I’ve been Military Pressing my bodyweight for 3 reps for what seems like ten years). Please realize, at my height even a little growth looks huge.

2…I’m not “afraid” of needles, but I simply can’t afford to have them found by my housemates (and, trust me, it would be hard for me to hide them). Flat out, I also really don’t like the idea of someone other than a nurse or doctor injecting me, even if it’s myself.

3…even at my age I still get some acne, oily scalp, etc, (started balding long ago, in my late teens), so I figure that I’d be a strong candidate for side effects. I also have family members with cholesterol issues, so I want to be careful of that.

4…Nothing that aromatizes! (as it is I’m scared enough of shrinkage without having to check for breast growth).

So, most stronger and cheaper AAS are out of the question.

What I would like are suggestions on PCT. I have read conflicting advice on this, and am interested in a new discussion. One friend suggested I skip “pharma PCT” and just use TRIBEX or Alpha Male (I used TRIBEX a few times when it was offered in the original formula with Avena Sativa, and once in the current “Gold” formula; but I have never tried Alpha Male, and since this would be my first cycle, obviously I’ve never used either for PCT).

The guys I know have never bothered with PCT on anavar cycles, but they are also (occasional) recreational drug users, so let it suffice to say that I am a little more paranoid about my health, and not keen on following their example to a “T”.

Also, what about some sort of liver protectant during the cycle? I’ve seen some users recommend the usual (milk thistle), but others (Bill Roberts?) have said it’s pretty useless for this purpose (but good for general health regardless of AAS use).

Lastly, I’m wondering about the milder/cosmetic sides with anavar. Much of what I’ve read suggests acne is more likely in women, but I can’t locate a firm answer on acne in male users. Again, anyone with experience to share would be appreciated.

Ok I’ll start from the bottom.

Acne is completly individual. You’ll know in a few days if youre one of the lucky ones. Keeping androgen levels steady will help keep acne down if youre the type that gets acne from fluctuating androgen levels.

Liver support such as Liv52 is ok to take. No real need though. If your liver is healthy to begin with 6 weeks of 60 per day is fine.

SERM based PCT is absolutely necessary. Read the SERM/AI sticky for a refresher.

Alpha Male in conjuction with a SERM cant hurt.

#4 of your list. Explain. What shrinkage do you fear? It’s likely that your balls will shrink to a degree. Shutdown of the HPTA will cause this. That doesn’t have much to do with gynecomastia though.

Thanks for the reply.

I think I’ll go for some liver support just to be extra safe, though I’ve never been a drinker and haven’t, to my knowledge, EVER done anything that could harm it (until now!).

I was indeed thinking SERM, just to be safe (although, again, the guys I know never bothered and haven’t had any sides…at least no noticeable ones…? Are they just super lucky?)

Clomid or Nolvadex? I can get either one with reasonable ease. I’m just unsure as I’ve read pretty vehement cases (opinions) both for and against each one.

re: #4 ~ I guess I wasn’t clear: I’m pretty set on anavar because it won’t aromatize: I want to avoid gyno like the plague. I do realize however that the testes will shrink no matter what AAS I take. (Basically I was just giving another reason for sticking with var, expecting that someone would post telling me to take deca or anadrol or something “better” instead)

I prefer nolvadex

Hey, thanks again Bonez. Care to elaborate though? (Do you prefer Nolvadex because of price, or due to some pharmacological effect I’m unaware of?). I’ve seen some guys say don’t bother with Clomid after var-only, because var doesn’t aromatise, but it seems they’re ignoring that Clomid has other PCT benefits or uses.

What about HCG during a cycle? I’ve seen it recommended elsewhere…pretty sure it was on the mesomorphosis forums…but have not seen it mentioned here (at least not for pure oxandrolone cycles).

I prefer nolvadex because Clomid makes me very emotional. Probably due to the high dose needed for LH stimulation. Both are suitable for getting the job done but more people prefer nolvadex for the same reason as I do.

Those telling you not to bother with clomid after a var cycle BECAUSE it doesnt aromatize dont know what theyre talking about or are confused. First of all whether or not a steroid aromatizes doesnt change that PCT is needed. And second, using a SERM, like clomid, for estrogen control of aromatizing steroids is an outdated practice.

I’d recommend hCG in longer cycles. But you wont experience much testicular shrinkage for all that long of a time to make it worth it, IMO.

You are the best, dude!

FYI, I’ve seen your posts around the forum before and you seem very knowledgeable and helpful, so I’m extra grateful for your input in my particular case.

Glad to hear you don’t see HCG as necessary (don’t wanna get into a stack of drugs just to counteract sides from other drugs).

I originally mentioned an 8 week cycle in my first post, but I may change that to 6 or 7 (I could then get away with buying just a slightly greater amount than I already have, and string out that greater total for a 2nd cycle later in the year).

I’ll post further developments and experiences if anyone’s interested. It may be a few weeks before I start using, due to current work commitments and being a little de-trained right now while on a maintenance (lazy) program since Christmas time…I don’t want to waste my first AAS cycle just to accomplish stuff in the gym that muscle memory would bring back in a couple weeks anyway.