T Nation

1st Cycle Help

Pharma
#1

Hey guys, I’m looking for a bit of advice from whoever can help…
I am 24, 198lbs, around 12/13% bf,
Iv been planning on doing a test only cycle for some time now,
My idea was to go with the typical noob cycle 400/500 per week for 8/10 weeks + nolva for pct…

The main thing I’m trying to learn is- is it possible to keep my 1st cycle relatively lean without bloated up and gaining 20+ lbs,
It seems most people want to gain as much as they can 1st time round but I’m really just looking for a leaner size gain,

The reason for this is I work in a gym and I can’t really afford to gain a massive 20-30lbs as it would raise too many questions…
Is the whole thing diet dependant? And would running aromasin/adex help?
Hopefully you can see where I’m coming from and can offer me some advice,
Thanks!

#2

weeks 1-10

test E 250mg 2x a week (monday thursday)

aromasin 6.25-12.5mg 2x a day (AM/PM) 6.25 will most likely be enough

pct (standard is 2 weeks after last test E pin) clomid 100/100/50/50 with aromasin tapering off

gains will be dependent on sleep, diet, and training

aromasin will keep away the “bloat”.

#3

Thanks Walkway, very helpful…
You don’t think a slightly lower dose of test is worth doing if i am not going for all out bulk?? I have seen lots of people say 300mg can be sufficient?
Appreciate any help dude.

#4

Do 500mg a week, 300 you will still see gains but 500 with proper diet will produce greater gains, and diet will keep away the unwanted 30lbs water bloat gain. Aromasin or adex will keep away some water as Walkaway says.

#5

smalsh,

Just curious, what about diet will keep away water bloat? Not trying to be a smart ass either. Will eating fatty foods produce water bloat? chicken breasts keep it away?

can you elaborate on this a little bit for me?

#6

I would of thought going crazy with dirty calories would create a lot more fat gain and bloat then a more sensible bulking diet even on cycle ?

#7

[quote]JJFOX wrote:
Thanks Walkway, very helpful…
You don’t think a slightly lower dose of test is worth doing if i am not going for all out bulk?? I have seen lots of people say 300mg can be sufficient?
Appreciate any help dude.
[/quote]

wtf does “all out bulk” mean? sounds like you’ve been filling your head with bullshit

use the testosterone with aromasin and keep your diet solid and clean and you will see lean gains.

this really isnt rocket science

#8

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]JJFOX wrote:
Thanks Walkway, very helpful…
You don’t think a slightly lower dose of test is worth doing if i am not going for all out bulk?? I have seen lots of people say 300mg can be sufficient?
Appreciate any help dude.
[/quote]

wtf does “all out bulk” mean? sounds like you’ve been filling your head with bullshit

use the testosterone with aromasin and keep your diet solid and clean (don’t over-eat either) and you will see lean gains.

this really isnt rocket science[/quote]

quoted myself by mistake… but i guess my post was so on point it should be posted twice anyway

#9

[quote]Ned wrote:
smalsh,

Just curious, what about diet will keep away water bloat? Not trying to be a smart ass either. Will eating fatty foods produce water bloat? chicken breasts keep it away?

can you elaborate on this a little bit for me?[/quote]

Not trying to be a smartass or anything but do you know what Sodium is?

#10

Salt.

#11

[quote]smalsh wrote:

[quote]Ned wrote:
smalsh,

Just curious, what about diet will keep away water bloat? Not trying to be a smart ass either. Will eating fatty foods produce water bloat? chicken breasts keep it away?

can you elaborate on this a little bit for me?[/quote]

Not trying to be a smartass or anything but do you know what Sodium is? [/quote]

what is your point about sodium?

#12

LOL all out bulk as in eating everything in sight!
Anyway ill be going with the 500mg pw + aromasin and keeping a cleaner diet with low SALT
cheers bro

#13

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]smalsh wrote:

[quote]Ned wrote:
smalsh,

Just curious, what about diet will keep away water bloat? Not trying to be a smart ass either. Will eating fatty foods produce water bloat? chicken breasts keep it away?

can you elaborate on this a little bit for me?[/quote]

Not trying to be a smartass or anything but do you know what Sodium is? [/quote]

what is your point about sodium?[/quote]
I think hes trying to say that if you keep your sodium levels low you can prevent some of the bloat. In reality… It’s the higher estrogen levels that will cause the water retention. Which can be minimized by a good aromatase inhibitor like you recommended. I very much doubt your sodium levels are going to make that much of a difference. Also, I think the OP will be much happier with 500mg instead of 300.

#14

You should take 500mg every 5 days. That way it helps you reach consistant levels quicker, and you take less injections.

#15

Slightly random question…
What are your experience with ‘Post cycle blues’ ?
reason i asked is i may in fact be going holiday after finishing my cycle and
would hate to be a depressed mess lol, Or would you say concentrations are still high for a good few weeks after?

#16

[quote]JJFOX wrote:
Slightly random question…
What are your experience with ‘Post cycle blues’ ?
reason i asked is i may in fact be going holiday after finishing my cycle and
would hate to be a depressed mess lol, Or would you say concentrations are still high for a good few weeks after? [/quote]

well assuming you are shooting test E or C, pct typically begins 2 weeks after your last pin.

as for pct blues? they are definitely real, or at least they were for me… i would cry for no reason… and i felt completely out of whack.

this is why i b/c

my friend however, handled pct like a champ… was completely unaffected emotionally. so everyone is different.

and as for keeping sodium intake low? that is the dumbest shit i have heard all day… trust me, you do not want to do this, u will feel like shit. i once had to eat an entire jar of pickles (roughly 12 grams of sodium) to get my levels back to normal because i listened to a FUCKING IDIOT who told me to keep sodium low and completely fucked my electrolyte balance.

and yes, i got noticeable water retention, but i ate 6x the standard recommendation in under 3 hours… it went away after i stabilized (pissed for like half an hour)

make sure u keep ur estrogen in check and u will be fine

#17

Wow man that Sounds pretty crazy…
Are you a particularly emotional person in general or did it just come out of nowhere?
Obviously everyone is different,
& I have no desire to cut salt too much, or anymore then i normally would.
Would you say during the 2 week break before PCT you still feel ‘on’ to some extent due to the test still in system?
I remember my friend telling me he still felt good and strength was still up a week or so after his last pin …

#18

deca PCT was awful, never again

#19

[quote]JJFOX wrote:
Wow man that Sounds pretty crazy…
Are you a particularly emotional person in general or did it just come out of nowhere?
Obviously everyone is different,
& I have no desire to cut salt too much, or anymore then i normally would.
Would you say during the 2 week break before PCT you still feel ‘on’ to some extent due to the test still in system?
I remember my friend telling me he still felt good and strength was still up a week or so after his last pin …
[/quote]

good, do not cut sodium.

am i particularly emotional? ive been using steroids since i was 20, been “on” for about a year straight with long periods of tren… so i forgot what normal feels like, but no… i have always been very even-tempered, even when running on numerous days of zero sleep from trensomnia.

the change during pct was VERY noticeable (for me and those around me). i felt like a million bucks on cycle (no such thing as roid rage), i was happy and cheerful (test + dbol was my first cycle… they both give euphoric feelings of wellbeing)… but coming off and using clomid i was very unstable (not violent at all… just mopey)

it was the same for the next 3 pct’s i ran (i also got COVERED in acne while my skin was clear on cycle), so i decided enough was enough and made a lifelong commitment to the needle when i was 21.

#20

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

good, do not cut sodium.

am i particularly emotional? ive been using steroids since i was 20, been “on” for about a year straight with long periods of tren… so i forgot what normal feels like, but no… i have always been very even-tempered, even when running on numerous days of zero sleep from trensomnia.

the change during pct was VERY noticeable (for me and those around me). i felt like a million bucks on cycle (no such thing as roid rage), i was happy and cheerful (test + dbol was my first cycle… they both give euphoric feelings of wellbeing)… but coming off and using clomid i was very unstable (not violent at all… just mopey)

it was the same for the next 3 pct’s i ran (i also got COVERED in acne while my skin was clear on cycle), so i decided enough was enough and made a lifelong commitment to the needle when i was 21. [/quote]

Well fair enough dude, i guess it was your choice to stay on, ill be interested to see how it goes for you. My friend and ‘source’ tells me he’s been on for about 10 years and has also never bothered with PCT’s!?- although he has no health problems i don’t think i will be following in his footsteps lol…