T Nation

1st Cycle Help, Information Needed


#1

Alright so I've waited long enough before finally gathering the courage to make a post on this site regarding the upcoming question. Im a 21 year old male, been training for a good 3 years now. I want to jump on my first cycle of test e and primo. Thinking about doing test at 500mg a week and primo at just about 600mg. Going to run it for 14 weeks. Stats: 5'8, 155, 5.2 % (recently competed).

Now enough with the giber jabber my question(S)are the following: is primo really that worth it or can I run eq and masteron instead? if so will mast kill my hairline like they say and at what dosages? As for a Pct which one do you guys recommend and for how long?

IM sorry for all the questions but it has become nearly impossible to get a solid answer from other threads because everyone has a thing different about them or their cycle. Yes I am new, and yes I have done my research. I am just looking for some solid answers from educated and experienced people.

Thankss


#2

What are ur lifting stats? Id realy like to see a pic, cause of thats impressive low bodyfat%

10 weeks of 500mg test e ew is enough for first cycle in my opinion… Pct use nolva 20mg ed for six weeks, two weeks after last pin.


#3

[quote]bestlifter wrote:
What are ur lifting stats? Id realy like to see a pic, cause of thats impressive low bodyfat%

10 weeks of 500mg test e ew is enough for first cycle in my opinion… Pct use nolva 20mg ed for six weeks, two weeks after last pin.[/quote]

sure man hmm bench is at 335
squat is at 390
deadlift ive hit 495 for one but right now im playing more around the 420 region cause of low caloric intakes and what not.

ill post a picture later on im on my work pc now. The thing is I really want to stack something with test. I know that for a first cycle test alone is you really need but im feeling cheeky :wink:


#4

Thats nice lifts for your size and years training… What are your goals with this cycle?


#5

[quote]bestlifter wrote:
Thats nice lifts for your size and years training… What are your goals with this cycle?
[/quote]

hah okay my goal is 10-15 lbs back on of lean mass (hence the primo, or eq and mast). I started my prep at 190 so I know I can get that size back I just want to look lean at that size


#6

[quote]sarkis1994 wrote:

[quote]bestlifter wrote:
What are ur lifting stats? Id realy like to see a pic, cause of thats impressive low bodyfat%

10 weeks of 500mg test e ew is enough for first cycle in my opinion… Pct use nolva 20mg ed for six weeks, two weeks after last pin.[/quote]

sure man hmm bench is at 335
squat is at 390
deadlift ive hit 495 for one but right now im playing more around the 420 region cause of low caloric intakes and what not.

ill post a picture later on im on my work pc now. The thing is I really want to stack something with test. I know that for a first cycle test alone is you really need but im feeling cheeky ;)[/quote]

With stats like that as a natty, WTF would you mess with it for?

There is a possibility that you wont recover your natural production to where it is at now. Then what?


#7

[quote]bestlifter wrote:
Thats nice lifts for your size and years training… What are your goals with this cycle?
[/quote]

thanks man :slight_smile:
well I imagine ill put on some weight on my reverse diet post comp but my goal is to mainly put on 10-15 lbs of lean mass… and yes I know it depends on my diet and training regiment but ill be hitting the gym twice a day, still doing cardio and eating to the t. But I want to stick to below 10% bf fat and minimal water retention


#8

[quote]Ned wrote:

[quote]sarkis1994 wrote:

[quote]bestlifter wrote:
What are ur lifting stats? Id realy like to see a pic, cause of thats impressive low bodyfat%

10 weeks of 500mg test e ew is enough for first cycle in my opinion… Pct use nolva 20mg ed for six weeks, two weeks after last pin.[/quote]

sure man hmm bench is at 335
squat is at 390
deadlift ive hit 495 for one but right now im playing more around the 420 region cause of low caloric intakes and what not.

ill post a picture later on im on my work pc now. The thing is I really want to stack something with test. I know that for a first cycle test alone is you really need but im feeling cheeky ;)[/quote]

With stats like that as a natty, WTF would you mess with it for?

There is a possibility that you wont recover your natural production to where it is at now. Then what?
[/quote]

hey ned I respect your intake on it but I plan on becoming a figure in the industry of physique and so I mean I need to start somewhere.


#9

[quote]Ned wrote:

[quote]sarkis1994 wrote:

[quote]bestlifter wrote:
What are ur lifting stats? Id realy like to see a pic, cause of thats impressive low bodyfat%

10 weeks of 500mg test e ew is enough for first cycle in my opinion… Pct use nolva 20mg ed for six weeks, two weeks after last pin.[/quote]

sure man hmm bench is at 335
squat is at 390
deadlift ive hit 495 for one but right now im playing more around the 420 region cause of low caloric intakes and what not.

ill post a picture later on im on my work pc now. The thing is I really want to stack something with test. I know that for a first cycle test alone is you really need but im feeling cheeky ;)[/quote]

With stats like that as a natty, WTF would you mess with it for?

There is a possibility that you wont recover your natural production to where it is at now. Then what?
[/quote]

dude. if his stats were shitty, you’d tell him to lift more first. so because his stats are good, you’re telling him he doesn’t need to use? get real. maybe he wants to go farther in bodybuilding than staying natural will allow.

OP, I would stick with just test for your first cycle, unless you have a VERY good reason for using the primo as well. You want to understand how your body reacts to different drugs at different dosages. If things don’t ‘feel right’ in this cycle, you won’t know what to adjust, because you’ve never run either compound before. At most, I would add in an oral, because oral’s are so fast acting. They’re easy to adjust.


#10

I agree on using an oral if u feel u realy want something more then just test…

Use an ai on cycle!


#11

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Ned wrote:

[quote]sarkis1994 wrote:

[quote]bestlifter wrote:
What are ur lifting stats? Id realy like to see a pic, cause of thats impressive low bodyfat%

10 weeks of 500mg test e ew is enough for first cycle in my opinion… Pct use nolva 20mg ed for six weeks, two weeks after last pin.[/quote]

sure man hmm bench is at 335
squat is at 390
deadlift ive hit 495 for one but right now im playing more around the 420 region cause of low caloric intakes and what not.

ill post a picture later on im on my work pc now. The thing is I really want to stack something with test. I know that for a first cycle test alone is you really need but im feeling cheeky ;)[/quote]

With stats like that as a natty, WTF would you mess with it for?

There is a possibility that you wont recover your natural production to where it is at now. Then what?
[/quote]

dude. if his stats were shitty, you’d tell him to lift more first. so because his stats are good, you’re telling him he doesn’t need to use? get real. maybe he wants to go farther in bodybuilding than staying natural will allow.

OP, I would stick with just test for your first cycle, unless you have a VERY good reason for using the primo as well. You want to understand how your body reacts to different drugs at different dosages. If things don’t ‘feel right’ in this cycle, you won’t know what to adjust, because you’ve never run either compound before. At most, I would add in an oral, because oral’s are so fast acting. They’re easy to adjust.[/quote]

So something like var? Or stronger?


#12

[quote]bestlifter wrote:
I agree on using an oral if u feel u realy want something more then just test…

Use an ai on cycle![/quote]

Ai as in??


#13

[quote]sarkis1994 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Ned wrote:

[quote]sarkis1994 wrote:

[quote]bestlifter wrote:
What are ur lifting stats? Id realy like to see a pic, cause of thats impressive low bodyfat%

10 weeks of 500mg test e ew is enough for first cycle in my opinion… Pct use nolva 20mg ed for six weeks, two weeks after last pin.[/quote]

sure man hmm bench is at 335
squat is at 390
deadlift ive hit 495 for one but right now im playing more around the 420 region cause of low caloric intakes and what not.

ill post a picture later on im on my work pc now. The thing is I really want to stack something with test. I know that for a first cycle test alone is you really need but im feeling cheeky ;)[/quote]

With stats like that as a natty, WTF would you mess with it for?

There is a possibility that you wont recover your natural production to where it is at now. Then what?
[/quote]

dude. if his stats were shitty, you’d tell him to lift more first. so because his stats are good, you’re telling him he doesn’t need to use? get real. maybe he wants to go farther in bodybuilding than staying natural will allow.

OP, I would stick with just test for your first cycle, unless you have a VERY good reason for using the primo as well. You want to understand how your body reacts to different drugs at different dosages. If things don’t ‘feel right’ in this cycle, you won’t know what to adjust, because you’ve never run either compound before. At most, I would add in an oral, because oral’s are so fast acting. They’re easy to adjust.[/quote]

So something like var? Or stronger?[/quote]

Var would be fine. It’s not a weak compound. D bol is good too, unless you have a contest in your immediate future. It will make you hold a bit of water.

AI stands for Aromatase Inhibitor. It’s widely agreed that one should be run in most steroid cycles to manage estrogen side effects. There are rare exceptions to this rule. Arimidex (Anastrozole) at .25mg every other day should be sufficient for the cycle you intend to run.


#14

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]sarkis1994 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Ned wrote:

[quote]sarkis1994 wrote:

[quote]bestlifter wrote:
What are ur lifting stats? Id realy like to see a pic, cause of thats impressive low bodyfat%

10 weeks of 500mg test e ew is enough for first cycle in my opinion… Pct use nolva 20mg ed for six weeks, two weeks after last pin.[/quote]

sure man hmm bench is at 335
squat is at 390
deadlift ive hit 495 for one but right now im playing more around the 420 region cause of low caloric intakes and what not.

ill post a picture later on im on my work pc now. The thing is I really want to stack something with test. I know that for a first cycle test alone is you really need but im feeling cheeky ;)[/quote]

With stats like that as a natty, WTF would you mess with it for?

There is a possibility that you wont recover your natural production to where it is at now. Then what?
[/quote]

dude. if his stats were shitty, you’d tell him to lift more first. so because his stats are good, you’re telling him he doesn’t need to use? get real. maybe he wants to go farther in bodybuilding than staying natural will allow.

OP, I would stick with just test for your first cycle, unless you have a VERY good reason for using the primo as well. You want to understand how your body reacts to different drugs at different dosages. If things don’t ‘feel right’ in this cycle, you won’t know what to adjust, because you’ve never run either compound before. At most, I would add in an oral, because oral’s are so fast acting. They’re easy to adjust.[/quote]

So something like var? Or stronger?[/quote]

Var would be fine. It’s not a weak compound. D bol is good too, unless you have a contest in your immediate future. It will make you hold a bit of water.

AI stands for Aromatase Inhibitor. It’s widely agreed that one should be run in most steroid cycles to manage estrogen side effects. There are rare exceptions to this rule. Arimidex (Anastrozole) at .25mg every other day should be sufficient for the cycle you intend to run.[/quote]

Okok I appriacte all this information now the thing is I’ll be honest with you I know the type of person I am and it sounds stupid but I want to be swinging at the fences with this. So hypothetically speaking if I were to add something other than var (seeing as I want to put on 10-15lbs of quality mass) would you prefer primo or eq and mast. And once again I know you suggested neither and sticking with test only but I’ll probably end up doing it anyway and I would prefer being educated before hand. And it seems to me as you know your stuff pretty darn well. Also this is what I look like


#15

I run letro 2.5 ED during my cycles.

In my humble opinion, test, deca, and tren is simply an amazing stack. The strength and size gains are unreal when coupled with the right training and diet.


#16

Impressive as fuck for a natty.

Make sure to run an AI. I’d run adex, easier to dose than letro. Letro gets tricky. 0.25 or 0.5 adex eod.

Just run a basic test cycle… 500mg a week. If you want throw in an oral like var or dbol and you would be great.


#17

[quote]sarkis1994 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]sarkis1994 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Ned wrote:

[quote]sarkis1994 wrote:

[quote]bestlifter wrote:
What are ur lifting stats? Id realy like to see a pic, cause of thats impressive low bodyfat%

10 weeks of 500mg test e ew is enough for first cycle in my opinion… Pct use nolva 20mg ed for six weeks, two weeks after last pin.[/quote]

sure man hmm bench is at 335
squat is at 390
deadlift ive hit 495 for one but right now im playing more around the 420 region cause of low caloric intakes and what not.

ill post a picture later on im on my work pc now. The thing is I really want to stack something with test. I know that for a first cycle test alone is you really need but im feeling cheeky ;)[/quote]

With stats like that as a natty, WTF would you mess with it for?

There is a possibility that you wont recover your natural production to where it is at now. Then what?
[/quote]

dude. if his stats were shitty, you’d tell him to lift more first. so because his stats are good, you’re telling him he doesn’t need to use? get real. maybe he wants to go farther in bodybuilding than staying natural will allow.

OP, I would stick with just test for your first cycle, unless you have a VERY good reason for using the primo as well. You want to understand how your body reacts to different drugs at different dosages. If things don’t ‘feel right’ in this cycle, you won’t know what to adjust, because you’ve never run either compound before. At most, I would add in an oral, because oral’s are so fast acting. They’re easy to adjust.[/quote]

So something like var? Or stronger?[/quote]

Var would be fine. It’s not a weak compound. D bol is good too, unless you have a contest in your immediate future. It will make you hold a bit of water.

AI stands for Aromatase Inhibitor. It’s widely agreed that one should be run in most steroid cycles to manage estrogen side effects. There are rare exceptions to this rule. Arimidex (Anastrozole) at .25mg every other day should be sufficient for the cycle you intend to run.[/quote]

Okok I appriacte all this information now the thing is I’ll be honest with you I know the type of person I am and it sounds stupid but I want to be swinging at the fences with this. So hypothetically speaking if I were to add something other than var (seeing as I want to put on 10-15lbs of quality mass) would you prefer primo or eq and mast. And once again I know you suggested neither and sticking with test only but I’ll probably end up doing it anyway and I would prefer being educated before hand. And it seems to me as you know your stuff pretty darn well. Also this is what I look like [/quote]

Well…

Let me ask you this. What do you believe the benefit of running any of these compounds would be for you? Why not just double the test dose instead? Masteron and Primo are pretty similar for most people, so between those 2 it’s probably a toss up. I haven’t run EQ, but I’ve strongly considered it, and would probably try that first. If you’re really set on going hard though, consider tren. It’s definitely going to be the most potent thing you can run. I don’t recommend it for a first cycle, but it will be the drug most suited to your goals.

If you can afford it, I’d run the var as well, even if you go with multiple injectables. I see no reason not to if you have the money for it. Var is great for making substantial changes in body composition.


#18

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]sarkis1994 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]sarkis1994 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Ned wrote:

[quote]sarkis1994 wrote:

[quote]bestlifter wrote:
What are ur lifting stats? Id realy like to see a pic, cause of thats impressive low bodyfat%

10 weeks of 500mg test e ew is enough for first cycle in my opinion… Pct use nolva 20mg ed for six weeks, two weeks after last pin.[/quote]

sure man hmm bench is at 335
squat is at 390
deadlift ive hit 495 for one but right now im playing more around the 420 region cause of low caloric intakes and what not.

ill post a picture later on im on my work pc now. The thing is I really want to stack something with test. I know that for a first cycle test alone is you really need but im feeling cheeky ;)[/quote]

With stats like that as a natty, WTF would you mess with it for?

There is a possibility that you wont recover your natural production to where it is at now. Then what?
[/quote]

dude. if his stats were shitty, you’d tell him to lift more first. so because his stats are good, you’re telling him he doesn’t need to use? get real. maybe he wants to go farther in bodybuilding than staying natural will allow.

OP, I would stick with just test for your first cycle, unless you have a VERY good reason for using the primo as well. You want to understand how your body reacts to different drugs at different dosages. If things don’t ‘feel right’ in this cycle, you won’t know what to adjust, because you’ve never run either compound before. At most, I would add in an oral, because oral’s are so fast acting. They’re easy to adjust.[/quote]

So something like var? Or stronger?[/quote]

Var would be fine. It’s not a weak compound. D bol is good too, unless you have a contest in your immediate future. It will make you hold a bit of water.

AI stands for Aromatase Inhibitor. It’s widely agreed that one should be run in most steroid cycles to manage estrogen side effects. There are rare exceptions to this rule. Arimidex (Anastrozole) at .25mg every other day should be sufficient for the cycle you intend to run.[/quote]

Okok I appriacte all this information now the thing is I’ll be honest with you I know the type of person I am and it sounds stupid but I want to be swinging at the fences with this. So hypothetically speaking if I were to add something other than var (seeing as I want to put on 10-15lbs of quality mass) would you prefer primo or eq and mast. And once again I know you suggested neither and sticking with test only but I’ll probably end up doing it anyway and I would prefer being educated before hand. And it seems to me as you know your stuff pretty darn well. Also this is what I look like [/quote]

Well…

Let me ask you this. What do you believe the benefit of running any of these compounds would be for you? Why not just double the test dose instead? Masteron and Primo are pretty similar for most people, so between those 2 it’s probably a toss up. I haven’t run EQ, but I’ve strongly considered it, and would probably try that first. If you’re really set on going hard though, consider tren. It’s definitely going to be the most potent thing you can run. I don’t recommend it for a first cycle, but it will be the drug most suited to your goals.

If you can afford it, I’d run the var as well, even if you go with multiple injectables. I see no reason not to if you have the money for it. Var is great for making substantial changes in body composition. [/quote]

I know eq increases appetite and vascularity so that I’m for sure down! The toss up between mast and primo is because simply I do not want to deal with the hair loss I really don’t


#19

[quote]nooberific wrote:
Impressive as fuck for a natty.

Make sure to run an AI. I’d run adex, easier to dose than letro. Letro gets tricky. 0.25 or 0.5 adex eod.

Just run a basic test cycle… 500mg a week. If you want throw in an oral like var or dbol and you would be great.[/quote]

Do I start the adex right away or I’ve heard I wait for my cycle to end ? Or is that for the pct? Sorry for being a noon


#20

[quote]sarkis1994 wrote:

[quote]nooberific wrote:
Impressive as fuck for a natty.

Make sure to run an AI. I’d run adex, easier to dose than letro. Letro gets tricky. 0.25 or 0.5 adex eod.

Just run a basic test cycle… 500mg a week. If you want throw in an oral like var or dbol and you would be great.[/quote]

Do I start the adex right away or I’ve heard I wait for my cycle to end ? Or is that for the pct? Sorry for being a noon [/quote]

You want to run it your whole cycle into PCT.
I’d run EQ with var or dbol. Cycle sort of like this:

Wk 1-14 Test-E 500-750mg/wk
Wk 1-12 EQ 600mg/wk
Wk 1-4 Dbol 40mg/day
Wk 1-16 Adex 0.25mg eod — taper accordingly

PCT
Wk 16-22 Nolva 20/20/20/20/20/20 or run 40 first two weeks and 20 last 4.

this cycle done right will probably put on 20-30lbs but you can cut after and maintain 15lbs of lean muscle after cycle