T Nation

1st Cycle Decision


#1

I'm 25yrs old and have a few years of weight training under my belt, nothing special. I haven't trained for a few years until just recently. My friend just finished his first cycle and got some pretty good results. He was 6'-0" tall 145lbs.(yes, a bean pole). After his cycle he weighs 177lbs. He doesn't look bloated, but I'm wondering how much is solid muscle and how much of it will he keep. Here's the cycle.

wk 1: 20mg dbol/ed + 250mg test depo

wk 2: 20mg dbol/ed + 250mg test depo
+ 200mg deca

wk 3: 30mg dbol/ed + 500mg test depo
+ 200mg deca

wk 4-5: 40mg dbol/ed + 500mg test
depo + 200mg deca + 10mg nolva/ed

wk 6: 20mg dbol/ed + 500mg test depo
+ 200mg deca + 10mg nolva/ed

wk 7: 400mg deca + 10mg nolva/ed

wk 8: 400mg deca

wk 9: 200mg deca + 100mg clomid/ed

wk 10: 50mg clomid/ed

I'm a newbie so any input, opinions, feedback etc. about the quality of this cycle would be greatly appreciated. By the way this is my first post so I hope it's not too hard to follow. Thanks fellas.


#2

not too hard to follow.

the cycle quality...low IMO

  • 20 mg d-bol ED is fine dose wise, but he ramped up and down. not ideal IMO...straight, consistent dose throughout is better
    -same thing with the test...250 is on the low side unless you want to run a longer cycle (low dose+long term is a good approach IMO). again, he ramped up and down, then cut it off in week 6, right when the majority of gains would be appearing.
  • the deca dose is low aswell for such a short duration. the doses are ramped once again...not ideal. and it was run for 3 weeks after the test was cut out, missing out on synergy, and risking possible deca sides when test is absent. also, the deca should ideally be stopped before the test to allow the longer ester to clear out.
  • PCT start time is all wrong. he didn't even allow for the deca to clear out before he started. it would still be somewhat active for the next 3 weeks or so...pushing the true PCT start time back to week 12 or 13.
  • the PCT was too skimpy, and not long enough...besides being started too early

#3

As for the next few weeks go i think your buddy will notice a noticable drop in weight after the deca clears. You may want to advise him to get ahold of some noveldex to help get his test levels back not norm(If its not to late)


#4

i would have kept the deca dose steady at 400mg and maybe increase or decrease by 100mg if anything. same with the dbol. i'm using it right now, my second go around - and i'm keeping it steady at 50mg. also, why the taper down? seems like a waste to me. i know deca stays in the system a while, but still, it just doesn't seem necessary.
the pct started too early i think.
6 weeks of test depo is too short imo.
just seems like a rookie cycle and we've all been there. i know i made my share of mistakes


#5

With all that being said, he did gain 30lbs. How much of that is solid muscle and how much is water weight? Like I said before, he doesn't "look" bloated(if any, a little in his cheeks). How long will he keep the solid muscle that he gained and what can he expect from the skimpy, short and early PCT? I know Billy Joe touched on this a little, but I never really trusted that guy. Haha just kidding BJ.

Thanks so far for the responses.

JsinJ


#6

Several things.

1) He's going to crash HARD. That deca is gonna be floating around in him for a long time after the test has cleared, he probably won't pop a boner till he goes back on cycle. And go back on he will, because my guess is that most of his gains will dissapear.

2) If your even thinking about trying this cycle, DONT! Run test alone at 400mg per week for 12 weeks. If you are dying to add another compound add dbol for the first 4 weeks at 20mg/ed.

I'd tell your boy to get back on 250mg of test and attempt another go at PCT.

JMO
Monopoly


#7

Man I did just fine running test/deca/dbol on my first cycle.It looked like this.

Test E 500mg week1-20
Deca 400mg week1-20
dbol 35mg week1-6

I took Arimi @ 5mg e/d for the duration of the cycle.My pct protocol were as follows. 2 weeks after my last test pin/  clomid @ 50 mg e/d for four weeks.Nolvadex was on hand in case "gyno" started to show.

B12,testatropinol,and tbomb II were taken for the duration of the cycle........I took the tbomb II cos it has 2 messenger hormone amplifiers.

In other words, it helps with the test boost,helps with the hormone recetor signal,lowers conversion to dht,and helps lower estrogen.It's just how I like my coffee bro.

Some will piss and moan about the length of my cycle and my pct protocol.
It's what worked for me.Blood panel turned out fine and my indigenous test levels returned to normal.

Hope this gives you some Idea as to what to do. If you want a 10 weeker, cut the cycle in half and leave the other compounds and dosages alone.

Shew damn................can you tell I am tweaking on t3 and eph.? Lol..

Get swole,
biscuite


#8

Do you remember how much you gained? Lost? How much did you increase in lifts? Etc...


#9

In all honesty I kept 15 pounds solid for 3 1/2 mos.My sup intake ,workouts and eating habits changed when I came off.During the cycle I gained damn near 40 lbs.No shit.My diet and workout regimine was on key though.

Strength gains were nothing short of phenominal.I'm a meso btw.That had a lot to do with it.With the deca and test, the strength will be there If you have the proper calorie intake and work out like you need to.

Things I would change if I run it again:

1)I would have eaten more.
2)Take 50mg of d-bol a week or just
A-50 instead.
3)I will bridge with insulin...fyi, I know its better with igf1 and growth but insulin alone is pretty damn good.
4)I will do a tad more cardio.

******Don't take anadrol the first go.
******Don't take slin until you know what the hell your doing.You will die if you play your cards wrong.

I just threw that in there for the hell of it.

biscuite


#10

Thanks biscuite for the info. I plan on doing a test only cycle for my very first cycle without the Dbol or any other orals. Not sure why, but just wanted to keep it really simple and see how 500mg of test per week does by itself.


#11

Excellent idea.


#12

If you like it I love it.Make it your own.I think you have made a good choice.

biscuite


#13

[quote]biscuite wrote:
In all honesty I kept 15 pounds solid for 3 1/2 mos.My sup intake ,workouts and eating habits changed when I came off.During the cycle I gained damn near 40 lbs.No shit.My diet and workout regimine was on key though.

Kept for 3 1/2 mo? so 3 1/2 mo later you were back at your original weight. God I hope not. First it looks like you pissed 25 pounds of water weight (otherwise known as "test" gains) out your cock before you kept your 15 pounds for 3 1/2 months. So what is your plan, to use roids for the rest of your life to retain gains? If you aren't making permanently retainable lean mass gains, you're wasting your time, money and body on AAS.