T Nation

1st Cycle Critique?

I have read a couple threads like the one I am about to put together that have helped me a ton for topics to research and practical knowledge from experienced bros. I was originally going to do an oral only BS cycle because I was a little bitch about needles but have wised up between the time first i ordered my oral gear and now.

I am ordering 2 vials of test E and deca tomorrow. They should be here and in my system in the next 4 days.

Criticism & pro tips welcome. Here are the details:

26yo - 6’4 - 182lbs - unknown bodyfat (super lean - visible stridations & super vascular)

Been working out hard and dieting consistently for just over a year and intermittent training for about 3 or 4 now. Have been on natural pro-hormone cycles for about 6mo with some solid results.

In the past 3 years I went from about 150lbs with almost no muscle tone to just over 180 morning weight natural. The pic is from earlier in the year before my most recent bulking & prohormone cycle when i was about 175lbs dry / morning weight. I have a long way to go but am a long way from where i started!

I already have, and am currently using anadrol & winstrol along with “PrimeT” test booster (prohormone). Today is day 3. I also picked up nolva and arimidex to have at the ready but am only going to use in PCT or if I get sides so I don’t tank my E2 and hurt my gains. The prime T acts as a mild AI so I doubt I will need them on cycle until after the test and deca hit if at all.

I’m currently stacking the winny & drol - 50mg winny at 4:30 am before I work out and 50mg anadrol at 6:00pm.

My first day I took them all at once in the morning and it made me sick all day at work. Staggering them feels a lot better. My logic is it gives my liver extra time to metabolize each drug individually and less concentration all at once.

I’m going for semi dry bulk so my diet is heavy in carbs and good fats with as many calories as possibly I can fit in. I get 5k calories a day from my gainer shakes alone plus 4 meals. Stir-fry variations for brunch, lunch and supper, and eggs/ toast for brekky is my staple with custom gainer shakes throughout the day and pharma grade NZ whey isolate for pre & post workout.

Instead of lunch and 2x 15 minute coffee breaks we get 30 minutes at 10:00 and 30 minutes at 2:00 which i really like for cramming 2 big meals into my work day.

I’m an ectomorph so workouts are high weight low rep every second day. Trying to stay out of ketosis as much as possible and conserve as much energy as possible to stay in caloric surplus.

I want to change my shape / proportions, not just my size so for my first cycle i’m focusing only on forearms, calves, glutes & fixing the few minor asemetrical imbalances I have acquired from my job.

Will do a weekly full body maintenance circuit that hits the muscle groups I left out, but my gains so far are natural so i’m not really worried about losing them. Aside from that i’m gonna try adding one of those jawsercise things to my workouts. (Lol)

Other daily supplements are creatine, glutamine, a daily multi, omega 3-6-9, fish oils, biotin, potassium, magnesium, milk thistle, folic acid & advanced trichology DHT blocker w immune support. I’m going to get a proper cycle support tomorrow when i order my injectables, apparently milk thistle doesn’t quite cut it?

I’m not 100% sure about dosage for test and deca so i was just going to hit the recommended dose from alpha pharm canada. My though it run the drol and winny from week 1-4 and test deca from week 2-10 with sups and prohormone.

I’m also ordering mk677 to take with my pct to try and maximize retention of gains. Apparently it’s nonsupressive and really effective at preventing muscle wasting.

If there is anything else i am missing or changes i should make please
let me know.

Thanks for all of the knowledge you guys have shared on other threads. Without it i would probably have wasted my time and mangled my liver.


No way this is real.

So many things wrong here dude. You haven’t done enough research.

When I read your post I was thinking “why the fuck is this kid wanting to run deca with test on his first cycle”

Then I read that you’re also taking drol and winny and I just shook my head in disbelief. I cannot see how long you intend to run orals?

Your understanding of training and nutrition leaves a lot to be desired aswell.

4 weeks

Where did you read that running all these compounds on your first cycle is a good idea?

Well my first order got mixed up with my friend in BC and he got my dbol and i got his anadrol so i just kinda ran with it. I was originally going to stack a lower dose of dbol and winny to combat some of the water retention. Once i realized that oral only was a dumb idea i looked into a a bunch of different bulking compounds and test + deca seemed to have the properties i desired. (Retention of gains after cycle, fairly large amounts of lean mass, not super hard on the system)

Do you have a suggestion for something that would be better?

I would also appreciate it if you would be more specific as to what you see as wrong

As far as training and nutrition goes i think i’m doing pretty decent. My macros are on point for my goals & body type. i’m getting a well balanced diet with lots of veggies and fruit plus supplements for things i would otherwise lack. If you are a mesomorph or endomorph what works for you will not work for me. My bmr is through the roof and my job is super physical so i probably burn between 2x&5x the amount of calories a endomorph does on a daily basis. I could eat like 12 double bigmacks with fries every day and maybe gain 5 lbs of fat in a month.

That cycle is overkill. This is just dumb don’t run that as your first cycle. Test w an oral is pushing it… but Deca too?? Nah bro…
Fuck the macros n just eat A LOT more. Mk677 helps with appetite but don’t run this cycle it’s stupid.

Ok thanks guys, I’ll drop the deca for the 1st one

I don’t think it’s physically possible for me to eat any more than i already do…

You need to drop everything you need to do wayyyy more research on steroids and you also need to do way more research in proper nutrition.

You have made some nice gains over the last few years but unfortunately you have no idea what your doing with drugs and your about to run into all sorts of issues.

Can you please point me in a direction or quote something specific that you see as an issue? Vague comments like that aren’t of any benefit. Like maybe some keywords or concepts? I have done a lot of reading on both topics and continue to read up regularly. If you are talking about the double big mac comment that was purely a hypothetical. I don’t eat fast food.


Mass builder shakes are complete garbage anyone with a good understanding of nutrition would never drink that crap. You don’t need absurd calories to bulk you just need quality calories around 500-1000 over maintance with your macros dialed in.

You have no understanding of steroids are you wouldn’t be using anadrol and winstrol while waiting in testosterone to come in. Using oral only is retarded. Using anadrol and winstrol on a first cycle is irresponsible. You don’t use arimidex in pct. You have no real understanding of how any of these drugs work.

Your training seems decent altho your underdeveloped in some area from what i see so I would suggest taking a step back learning more about proper nutrition focus on how you can tweak your training to focus on these weaker areas and while you do that spend a year or so researching the affects steroids have on your body. Each one does different things comes with different side effects learn these things.

By this time if youv done everything like I said you will have a better understanding of diet and training and will have those two dialed in you will come back make a post out lining your first testosterone cycle it will be simple and effective and not one big smorgish board of potentially harmful crap like you have going on now.

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Thank you for that I really appreciate the time you put into adding more details. I was originally supposed to get dbol & winstrol and run them solo as my first cycle but my order got messed up. I changed my mind on course of action because I figured it would be better to start test a week late then not at all since I’m already committed. The arimidex was for on cycle with the dbol. I understand the difference between an AI & selective. I’m currently dialing in my training to fix my imbalances with the help of a personal trainer. He was actually the one who suggested I try mammoth because they changed their formula to include high quality carbs even if the protein isn’t the greatest quality. I was on kiazen naturals isolate before but switched to pharma grade NzW which is apparently way better. I still use NzW for training days only because it’s really expensive. Before the gainer shakes I didn’t make any size gains. I can stuff myself sick with 6k calories of food and still be deficit on work days unfortunately. I’m a freak of nature when it comes to metabolism. I’ve been trying to put some fat on so I don’t catabolize my gains overnight when I sleep which is what happens without gainer shakes. Like I said in my other comment, mesomorph and endomorph diet and training is a lot different than extreme ectomorph diet and training. Before I learned about that I literally made 0 progress which is why all of my real gains are from the past year alone.

From what I gather talking to older bodybuilders (45-55) most of the talk of liver damage is extremely overstated and exaggerated based on 1990s PSA’s quoting effects from guys that run insanely huge amounts of gear for long periods of time.

I’m past the point of turning back but I think I’m going to only run anadrol until week 3 as that’s aright around when the test will start to kick. The decision to use winstrol along side it was to balance the wet and dry compounds and firm up some of the gains I made so I didn’t lose everything off cycle which is common with anadrol. Maybe a bit aggressive for my first cycle but my body is handling it and its not going to be a regular occurrence doing pills.

You shouldn’t worry about wet vs dry. You’re skinny and you have a lot of room to grow. With that growth you’re less likely to become a big fat slob because, well, you’re skinny. I can see how your thought process worked and while it was incorrect at least you had some logic behind it. Or rather at least you tried to look at it from what you believed was a logic angle. But you don’t need anything other than a good dose of testosterone and a reasonable calorie surplus.

Test at 500/w for 12 weeks. Eat whole foods, train hard, and enjoy the rewards. Give your liver a break and put the orals in a drawer for a while. They’ll keep for literally years.

should i drop the orals immediately or would it be ok if i just drop the winstrol and run the anadrol @50mg ED wk 1-3 and test for 12wk? I already feel a bit of a boost in my endurance / recovery and i kinda like it :sweat_smile:

Eh. Anadrol is weird and can come with some side effects that are harder to understand and manage. Testosterone is easier to handle on its own.

Point taken. Thanks for the advice.