T Nation

1st Cycle Along with Propecia

I am new to the sport of bodybuilding (as of this past summer). I did my first show all natural, but I’m pretty sure i need to be ON in order to achieve my goals. I have never experimented with steroids before due to the fear of side effects (hair loss in particular). I am predisposed to Male pattern hair loss and i was wondering what cycles and/or stacks are relatively easy on hair (if any). I am considering a Test Propionate + Equipoise stack for my this bulking phase.

I also just began taking propecia (finasteride) to help combat any hair loss. I was wanting to know if this is a safe/good idea, or if I’m doing more harm than good? I would appreciate any feedback. thanks

why prop over other tests. seems dumb unless theres a certain reason to use a fast and slow estered compounds.

How much muscle have you put on since starting to seriously weight train? How old are you? and what do you currently weigh at what height?

in general test and DHT derivative structures can be controlled (partly) through finasteride as they tend to act through the 5-aa system. Other compounds may not act through that system and as such finasteride may not have a big (or any) effect on hair loss through a different mechanism.

[quote]Dave1188 wrote:
why prop over other tests. seems dumb unless theres a certain reason to use a fast and slow estered compounds.[/quote]

I wanted to use prop because i have read that since the esters are shorter, if any sides did appear (hair loss, gyno, etc.), they would go away in a shorter time period. i know i’m probably worrying too much about sides, especially for a first cycle. would a lower dose of test make sides more/less prevalent? and how would EQ act in the equation? thanks again for the response

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
How much muscle have you put on since starting to seriously weight train? How old are you? and what do you currently weigh at what height?

in general test and DHT derivative structures can be controlled (partly) through finasteride as they tend to act through the 5-aa system. Other compounds may not act through that system and as such finasteride may not have a big (or any) effect on hair loss through a different mechanism.[/quote]

I have been training seriously for about 3-4 years, but just now started competing. i have put on between 20-30 pounds of good weight since then if i had to guess. i am 5’10 and weigh about 195. but i think that not being on may have caused me to lose too much muscle for my show.

so you are saying that propecia can be effective to an extent with test, but not so much with other forms (EQ)? thanks again

I can commnet on the cycle due to the fact I have never done 1, but I have heard nightmare about this finasteride stuff from other men on HRT. Just a heads up.

Just FYI, but you can STILL lose muscle in a competitive diet phase while “on”. It’s no guarantee. On the other hand, if you’re spot on with your diet protocols (like Christian Thibaudeau), you can cut for a show and lose almost no muscle.

Also, it could have been a problem that led to additional perceived losses in your diet phase if you were unable to properly manipulate your pre contest phase to fill your muscles up. If you came in flat for your show, as can often happen, it could lead to the perception that you lost more muscle than you did.

Not saying you were wrong or lying, just giving you other real possibilities.

propecia/proscar is effective with any hormone that affects hair loss through the 5-aa. If it happens with some other mechanism besides 5-aa, finasteride won’t do jack in most cases.

Here is the cycle that i am considering

week 1-12: 250 mg test prop
week 1-12: 350 mg EQ
Propecia 1mg daily
Arimidex if necessary

please let me know if that sounds ridiculous for a first timer. thanks

firstly, I personally don’t know if only 1 mg daily of propecia will be enough with elevated T levels. With “normal” T levels, yeah, but not exogenous test.

Also, this is just me and I’m a newb myself, but I don’t think that’s ENOUGH test. really, average is around 450-500 mgs a week for a 1st cycle, give or take 30. Equipoise I can’t speak to.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
firstly, I personally don’t know if only 1 mg daily of propecia will be enough with elevated T levels. With “normal” T levels, yeah, but not exogenous test.

Also, this is just me and I’m a newb myself, but I don’t think that’s ENOUGH test. really, average is around 450-500 mgs a week for a 1st cycle, give or take 30. Equipoise I can’t speak to.[/quote]

so would it be a better idea to double my doses of propecia for the weeks of my cycle? or still a waste of time? also, i know that 250 sounds a little low, but i didn’t want to do any irreversible damage for my first cycle.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Just FYI, but you can STILL lose muscle in a competitive diet phase while “on”. It’s no guarantee. On the other hand, if you’re spot on with your diet protocols (like Christian Thibaudeau), you can cut for a show and lose almost no muscle.

Also, it could have been a problem that led to additional perceived losses in your diet phase if you were unable to properly manipulate your pre contest phase to fill your muscles up. If you came in flat for your show, as can often happen, it could lead to the perception that you lost more muscle than you did.

Not saying you were wrong or lying, just giving you other real possibilities.

propecia/proscar is effective with any hormone that affects hair loss through the 5-aa. If it happens with some other mechanism besides 5-aa, finasteride won’t do jack in most cases.[/quote]

Is there any way of finding out what AASs would affect hair loss through the 5-aa and which would not? Seems like this would be the key information here.

Dwinki–I’m really not comfortable giving advice on cycle stuff in general, as I am inexperienced from a “first hand” point of view.

However, I frankly would go to 5 mg per day of finasteride. Proscar is the brand name for finasteride in 5 mg doses. You are introducing vastly increased amounts of testosterone to your system. finasteride is generally well tolerated at that dose, although there are risks associated with any medication or hormone.

But you knew that already and accepted that fact, or you would not be planning a cycle in the first place, right? Therefore, I say to you, increase your test dose. 250 mg/week is NOTHING. It’s a bit more than HRT doses, but not enough to really see any great results, AND enough to shut you down.

Think very hard about whether you want to risk the sides before you go and start injecting–this isn’t a decision to take lightly due to the risks involved. That being said, 5 mg finasteride should keep hair loss at bay while on cycle.

Additionally you could stay on propecia at reduced doses for a while after your cycle ends.

[quote]vkn1 wrote:

Is there any way of finding out what AASs would affect hair loss through the 5-aa and which would not? Seems like this would be the key information here.
[/quote]

Pretty much. Any compound that is convertible to DHT is going to run through 5-alpha reductase. That is pretty well any testosterone based compound.

Generally compounds that are already DHT based (that is, a modified DHT molecule) will not be effected by inhibiting the enzyme, to my knowledge.