T Nation

1st Cycle Advice

Hey guys,
So I’m on my 1st cycle, I’m running test e and tren.
I have looked everywhere and constantly getting mixed answers. So my question is, for my 1st cycle should I be running a hcg with my pct’s (I have nolvadex and clomid) when I come off? I’ve had a few friends say yes but I had a few say no that (also read different answers on a few forums) I’m wasting my money as it’s my 1st cycle so everything will kick back in after a little time, apparently it would be different if I cycled often…

Im trying to be smart and research the right stuff but as you know. Everyone has different opinions so I figured I’d jump on here and ask some more experienced people.
Thanks in advance for any advice u can give me!!!

I don’t even know where to start …

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should anyone ever do tren on their first cycle. I wish you had realized your friend that gave you that advice was off before you started the cycle. You have now realized the friend was off through your HCG “research.” So be it.

Never run HCG during PCT, it will actually hinder your recovery. There are two methods to HCG. One run it during cycle to keep your balls producing test. Two run it before PCT but not during PCT to turn your balls back on. I suggest you use it during cycle. Then afterwards you take some serious time and effort researching what you are doing before ever thinking about a second cycle.

As far as you having a better chance recovering because it’s your first cycle. Yes and no. You being younger and hopefully healthy does influence your ability to recover. The other things besides age effecting recovery are length of suppression, compounds used (tren is VERY suppressive) and state of natural test production before your cycle.

Please verify any information you get from your current sources. I do commend you for doing that even though it’s after you started using TREN for your first cycle. Tren is a progesterone and it has it’s own kind of gyno (bitch tits) then on top of that it is basically steroids on steroids. It is it’s own beast and should be left as the LAST steroid you decide to try and even then it should be like your tenth cycle if not ten years after you start.

I will comment more later.

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Hey mate, thanks heaps for the response. I really should have researched more, but like I said everywhere I look on the good old internet everyone has different opinions so it’s very confusing. I never read anywhere though that tren shouldn’t be a part of my 1st cycle. But to be blatantly honest, if and when I do another cycle I’m probably just going to run test e by itself (please let me know what ur thoughts are on that if you have any)

I’m nearly at the end of the cycle now, so I guess it’s too late to run hcg? Just go straight to pct’s?

Bit of background I should have given earlier (sorry)
I’m 32
Ive been going to gym for a while now and decided to do a cycle for a boost in strength mainly and to help tone up a bit.

Im going to research as much as I can so if you have any links with good info that you would be happy to share I’d really appreciate it!
Thanks again

And if it helps my main aim is to over all feel better, gain strength and tone up (drop fat)

You can run HCG from right now up to when you start your PCT. Just don’t over lap HCG and PCT. The old school method of HCG is just blast that stuff for the 2-4 weeks before you PCT. If you do it for four weeks the it would overlap with the last two weeks of your cycle and thats ok. Really it’s a personal choice to use or not. If you want to know if it is a waist of money then try recovery without it and see how it goes. You will read this over and over in your quest for knowledge, everyone is different! Some guys might take two or three months for stuff to kick back on at an acceptable level, others don’t even bother with PCT and they are fine.

The thing your research should have shown you was that your first cycle should always be testosterone only. There are numerous reasons to include, find out what your body does with five times the natural test production before you give it a hormone that it has never seen before. Also you need to see how to manage the extra estrogen from just one source before you have two then later possibly three sources of estrogen. You also need to see how you recover from just test before you add anything else in there. And one of the biggest reasons is your body is already use to test, it has never seen the other compounds.

Yes absolutely just run test the next cycle. Really guys should run just test for the first three cycles. You will still be gaining from it so why go and pay more to try some new compound that you won’t even get the full benefits from until you are further along in your development.

As far as information sources. There are many. Really to properly develope your steroid bullshit detector you need to just go search testosterone enanthate. Read and read. Then search Deca or equipoise. You will find sources that have write ups on all the common compounds. You will pretty quickly see that most are very common but then one will say something off. That off statement might be true or false. Go look at the other stuff on that page. If everything is off and it’s trying to convince you that they are the one source of true knowledge then chances are it’s a troll. The true body of actual knowledge is going to be fairly common across the sites but it will be presented from different points of view. A good rule of thumb is if they are trying to convince you that you don’t need to worry about something everyone else says to watch out for then that source is probably taking risks, very dangerous risks. Stay away!

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Here is a quick list of stuff to go read up on

The three family’s of steroids, testosterone based, DHT based and 19-nor’s

The difference between a SERM and Aromatase Inhibitor.
When do we use a SERM.
When do we use an Aromatase Inhibitor?

Esters and why they effect timing in regards to PCT.

The signs of high estrogen in men.
The signs of low estrogen in men.
Why we need some estrogen to build muscle.

A “wet compound”
A “dry compound”

Aromasin, arimidex, femara.

Nolvadex, clomid.

PCT timing with long esters.
PCT timing with short esters.

A list of esters and relative half life.

Why does half life effect when we see results during a cycle?

Gyno.
Progesterone gyno
How do we handle those kinds of gyno.

The difference between a cycle and “blasting and cruising”

What level of dosage constitutes a cycle versus trt or hrt. (And that is actually subjective to the person, within limits)

What is natural potential?

Why do your gains go away after a cycle once you are past natural potential.

Anything I put in this list you can probably just type into a search bar with the word “steroid” and it should get relevant results.

Chances are you will end up cycling again and it is even possible you will end up blasting and cruising, so read up. It will come in handy.

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Looks like I might get the hcg and start it “better safe than sorry” I guess, and I’ll get cracking on my research.

My mate told me tren was good for “drying out and cutting” amongst other things. As I’ll be honest I’m over weight and fat loss is my main goal. So that’s why I tried it. And although there has been no massive changes I have lost 10 kilos and my shoulders arm and such are alot more toned so that’s big for me. I carry fat around my stomach (I have recently been getting help from a nutritionist for my diet) my mate said clen wouldn’t work for me as that’s what I originally wanted…

So I’ll admit I seem stupid for listening to him. I’ll just finish this cycle up properly take a break and if I go again it will just be test e and a heap of research…

Thanks for taking the time to explain things to me, I appreciate it alot.

Tren in the steroid world is like heroin in the drug world. Its not to be taken lightly. Your buddy is a dumbass.

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Your mate is a dumbass; why did he think Clen wouldn’t work for you? Clen is amounng the best fat burners there is. I suspect your friend is also your supplier and didn’t have any Clen to offer you at the time.

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Yeah mate you exactly right. His reasoning is because I’m a big guy it would be hard on my heart and it’s for people that want to lose the last few kilos, where as I have more to lose. but I’ve had it before and it was fine…

Thanks man! I will start reading up. I’m not in a hurry to cycle again but I probably will when I know a bit more and have lost some more weight. Doing a cycle was good to help me out and give a boost but I don’t want to rely on it.

Honestly brother, turning to steroids to lose weight / cut fat is, in many people opinion, a huge red flag.

Steroids should be introduced when you have exhausted your natural limits and have workout and diet nearly perfect. Most would say you shouldn’t cycle until your below 15-17% bodyfat, as you run the risk of elevated estrogen.

Not trying to be harsh, but if you can’t get, and maintain the general body composition you desire without regular diet and regular exercise, how will you do it with steroids?

I understand that. Like I said it was more of a booster and it’s helped me in the sense of my strength plateaued alot so I got through that. This may seem stupid to say but it’s helped me stay consistant and kept me in a good frame of mind.

In saying that I have trained for a while, I carry ALOT of muscle, but I’ve always struggled with burning fat. My diet is great, I balance all my macros with the help of a nutritionist but due to my lack of research and going off what other ppl say I ended up here so while it has helped me I also realized I fucked up by doing it this early.

I will probably do it again but after I’ve educated myself and learnt enough.

And don’t worry about being harsh mate. Some things we all need to hear. I appreciate everyone’s input.

Good checklist mate

You say no massive changes yet you at least lost 10kg. That is over 20lbs and that is just what is shown on the scale. You gained muscle so right there that means you lost more than the 10kg. Plus you are retaining water on cycle so again there is more fat you lost that you don’t necessarily realize because the scale only moved 10kg. All that said 10kg is one heck of a good movement in the right direction in regards to your end goals. Don’t sell yourself short or your cycle short. You had a very good response.

You will see this said again and again at the sites with reasonably intelligent people, steroids are not miracle drugs, they are not magic. All they do is assist people whom are willing to put in the effort. You definitely put in some effort so hold your head up because your effort shows.

All that said just for anyone else reading this, you should always do just testosterone for your first cycle if not the first three or so. That and TREN should be the last one you try, it is it’s own beast with it’s own issues that require specific ancillary compounds to manage. It is your body and your life quality you are risking when you decide to use AAS. Never let anyone else do your thinking or choosing for you. Verify everything you can before you take the leap.

Lastly, don’t forget PRE cycle blood work. Without it how will you be able to know if your body properly recovered back to “normal.”
To go with this last statement, I personally feel that if your budget only affords one post cycle blood panel then I would PCT then wait one to two months and then get your post cycle. Ideally you get two post cycle blood panels, one right after PCT to make sure there is some test being produced then another about two to three months later to make sure you are still moving in the correct direction. True recovery is probably going to be at least six months post cycle for everything to get back into equilibrium.

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Yeah when put like that I guess I’m doing pretty well and I do feel heaps better too.

Just want to make sure I’m doing egeryt8the right way next time so i will go to a Dr about the blood panels and start keeping an eye on that as well

And I’ll probably wait a good few months if not more before I do a other cycle anyway. I know guys that do it full on but I don’t wanna get anywhere near that. Just want to do it properly :slight_smile: