T Nation

1st Cycle. 28, 5'11", 200lbs


#1

Hey guys hoping you can help me out.
28m 5’11 200lbs about 15% bf.

Looking to do my 1st cycle. I have low T but can’t find a dr to prescribe shots just the gel which I don’t want. I’ve had it tested 3 times and the serum is always about 250(360-1150 is normal) and free test is about 8.3(9.3+ is normal).

Cycle would be as follows
Wks 1-4 finaflex 550HD- old PH I have that worked wonders when I took it a few years ago.
Wks1-14 250mg sust total. Shot every 3 days
Wks 1-14 bronkaid 75mg/day and either 2wks on 1 off or 2 on 1@25mg and repeat.
Wks 1-14 adex.25 ED or .5 EOD depending on symptoms.

Pretty simple I think and I am getting advice from a pro so I think this should be good but wanted to see if you guys have opinions.
I know the sust might be a little low but it’s more so to get my levels to normal. Any insight I would greatly appreciate it. Also should I talk Nolvadex after? If this feels good I’m basically planning on using it as TRT (just the sust no other supps)

Thanks guys!


#2

If you’re using it as TRT, then Nolva doesn’t factor in, outside of mitigating gyno symptoms if they occur while you’re using.

I would suggest using test e or c, if it’s available, rather than sustanon, if you truly intend to administer this as a trt substitute. A longer, single ester, will be better for stability.

How many doctors have you seen? It’s surprising that with your levels as low as they are, that you haven’t found any who will give you an injectable prescription. Maybe ask around or do some forum searches for trt docs in your area. There has to be someone who can help.


#3

Thanks for the reply. I have gone to 2 doctors. The one would only do the gel the other is still doing blood work. He wanted the testosterone test to be “read/tested” a different way I forget the name but I’m pretty sure it was for the free testosterone. So basically I have to get it done again. If it’s low he still wants me to get other tests done such as testicular ultrasound and MRI of my pituitary gland. I’m honestly just getting sick of all the back and forth.

As for the test e I agree with you however I have a wedding that I want to look good for(beach wedding) so I thought doing this round of sust and then basically after week 14 go to test e? Is that a good approach or would you just do the E if I can get it?


#4

I have some experience with TRT and I’ve run a 10-12 week mini blast of 300mg of Test E, just because… f*** it, lol

Some people say 300mgs/wk is not enough and a waste. They could be right but I made good gains on that low of a dose. There could be a lot of factors tho; healthy T levels, E2 was balanced and I repaired a damaged thyroid. Couple that with feeling good and pushing harder in the gym and diet

If you’re T levels are low and you dial all your hormones (ask about your Thyroid too; VERY important), coupled with a good progression plan and diet you WILL look good pretty quick

FWIW - I don’t think you need Sust to get you going sooner. If you do cycle you will be seeing results in 4weeks with any long Esther. Not sure when this beach wedding is but being impatient is what’ll make you make rash decisions

This 2nd Dr may seem slow but he’s doing you a favour by being thorough. Unless you live in Canada. Then he’s just using your time for billing purposes and prob will slough you off after, lol. I have to pay for my TRT out of pocket because my Dr wouldn’t even test my T levels


#5

Thanks for the reply. He is thorough but just slow for my liking. I tend to agree with you on the test e and think I will try to get that instead.


#6

agreed with Sam. the 2nd doctor is doing his job. If you just want to do steroids, and you have no desire to improve your natural testosterone production, that’s one thing. But your 2nd doctor seems to be invested in that, and if you’d like to have the potential of not relying on a needle every single week for the rest of your life, I’d give his process a chance. Just food for thought. I can’t imagine that this beach wedding is actually worth throwing away a chance at avoiding shots for the rest of your life.


#7

I agree that this new doctor is doing the right thing I guess I’m just more frustrated with how long it’s been taking (2months so far).

I do want to get me levels to normal however I also have been wanting to hop on gear before I knew about me low levels and this seemed like a good time to try it. The beach wedding is motivation but I honestly think I would hop on even if it wasn’t upcoming. Still debating on what to do as the advice has got me thinking. I don’t know if this sounds stupid but I think I’m at the point where I just want that boost and don’t mind injecting even if it’s forever.

My other question would be how does this work if I want kids? To my knowledge other than low t. Everything else is fully functional. All my other bloodwork including estradiol etc were normal.
If I start my own “trt” does that make me sterile? I’m reading mixed things. At my dose I don’t think it would but I’m also reading studies that say 250mg will do it. If so does hcg counteract this?

My wife and I are planning on trying to start a family in the next 6 months. Sorry for all the questions I just don’t want to mess this up. I took a PH when I was 18 (had no idea what a ph really was at the time) and it messed my hormones up for a while hence all the research and second guessing. I didn’t complete a pH cycle a few years ago with proper AI and pct with no problem

I appreciate all the help I’m trying to get as much info before I start and I trust the opinions here along with my own research.


#8

you likely won’t think this in a year when you’ve injected 50+ times. But you’re an adult, it’s your call.

HCG is important to fertility. Read up on that. Fertility can definitely be an issue when on steroids. I know of multiple women who left their husbands because the husband was infertile due to steroids. Generally speaking, it can be fixed, but not always.

Keep in mind that estradiol is normal now, but it won’t be once you start using, and you’ll have to manage that as well with drugs, probably arimidex. Once you start using, your entire body chemistry and hormonal profile will change.


#9

Not to sound like that guy but I have a pretty high pain tolerance so I don’t think that will be a problem but you’re right I won’t really know until I do it consistently.

My biggest concern/hesitation is the infertility. Would I need to be on hcg at all times or could I just start it when I want to have kids or if notice testicular shrinkage? I will be using Adex.

I have done some research on hcg and actually read an article on here about mega dosing it. About 2000 iu a week to raise test levels. Not sure if that is legit or not I haven’t been able to find too much on that dosing

Again my goal is to just do trt after this cycle and just cruise on it Basically forever. I have great insurance and everything so I can pretty much get the necessary bloodwork anytime and would tell my regular dr about it. He’s pretty cool so I don’t think he would mind testing my hormone levels like twice a year or so.

Anyone have experience being on trt long term and also trying to have kids?


#10

it’s not about pain, lol.

but anyway. I don’t have direct experience with having kids and trt, but I have friends who got their gfs or wives pregnant while on much bigger cycles. And look at some of the top bodybuilders… I’m pretty sure Ronnie Coleman has 5 kids lol.

The problem, though, is that all of this is anecdotal. The flip side is the other friends I mentioned earlier who DID have fertility issues. It can really be something of a crap shoot. This is the definition of the word risk. You MIGHT be fine. You MIGHT not. If one is to use steroids, one should not take anything for granted. Nothing is 100 percent. There is no guarantee that fertility won’t be an issue for you at 200mg, even if Ronnie can be on 5 grams per week and pop kids out of his wife on the regular. You shouldn’t be asking the question ‘does anyone have X experience’. That won’t get you the answers you’re actually looking for, unfortunately.


#11

Can u please check my post on this forum and gimme some advice mate? Id appreciate it… :slight_smile:


#12

Thanks for the help flip. I’m still debating on what to do. You’re right I can ask 100 guys there experience not just on the cycle but with fertility and get 100 different answers. I am leaning towards just waiting things out but my next appointment isn’t until June which is frustrating but probably worth it in the long run.

Any opinions on doing the same stack but instead of the sust just getting a good sarm(have a good source for liquid). I know it’s not the same as test but I think it would just give me a nice boost without worrying about the fertility factor


#13

a couple things…

I didn’t get anything out of SARMS, at all. I ran ostarine. I thought the same thing before my first cycle. Some people report good experiences with it though. I guess it’s not a bad option.

I’ll also tell you what I did, regarding fertility. I waited. That was absolutely my reason for not using steroids before I did. I waited until I had a healthy, happy, 2 month old baby, and I ran my first cycle. I did not believe infertility was worth the risk.


#14

You could be a pain in the ass with your Dr to see if he (or she) will see you sooner. It can’t hurt to push to catch something sooner

In the meantime I’d take the time to research and understand hormones as much as possible. Some Dr’s are completely useless and you’ll want to have your own input for your overall health IMO.

Some things to consider:
Don’t just look at T levels. The more hormones you optimize the better off you’ll be; Testosterone, Estrogen, Thyroid, Cortisol…


#15

WTF is the matter with you?
You ask for people to look at your post on every fucking thread?
Have some respect and a little class.


#17

Great advice from flip and tool in this thread. OP, hope everything works out for you. I’d be looking to push the second doc along and get those labs in and see if there’s anything going on that is driving the low T that should be addressed.

KSman’s stickies in the TRT forum are invaluable. Check them out for more comprehensive info on TRT.