T Nation

19 Year Old Bodybuilder Starting a Cycle


#1

Hi, i am 19 years old bodybuilder and about to start a 10 week cycle.

Week 1-10 500mg test E, Split into 2 doses Mon and Thursday.
Week 10-14 100mg Test E/week
Then i will proceed to taper the dose of test/adex until completely off.

Arimidex .5 E3D and Nolva for will be used for my pct.

My stats: 5'9/205lbs/10%bf. I lift 5 days a week and cardio the other 2.

My diet consists of Eggs,Chicken,Beef,Talapia/Cottage cheese/Whey protein/Brown Basmati Rice Olive oil Penut butter etc.

My trainer designed both the cycle and nutrition plan. He is also a competitor and is preparing me for the 2nd show.

My question is about HCG and the effectiveness of the tapering method, would like some opinions.

Cheers,


#2

I would say a cycle at 19 is very irresponsible. I commend your enthusiasm and desire to progress, but your body is still growing and changing.


#3

I suppose you are right, but don't you agree drugs/alcohol at 19 is just as irresponsible?

I'm much more developed mentally and physically than the other young guys on here who have done a cycle. I am trying to bring my physique to a state/national level, my trainer thinks i do have the genetics to get as far as other guys like antoine vaillaint/ Nick Medici etc.

But i do appreciate the concern for younger guys that want to jump into this kinda stuff.


#4

I also do not think its a good idea for someone your age to run a cycle.

But it's your body and I'm not paying your medical bills should you permanently damage your HPTA and need HRT, and neither is your trainer I suppose, so good luck. I hope it's worth it.

I strongly recommend running a shorter cycle with a higher dose. 10 weeks of test E equals 12 weeks of HPTA supression. Running 700mg for 8 weeks will likely yield better results and cause you to be shutdown for a shorter amount of time. Being shutdown for a shorter time can only be beneficial in your case.

Pic of your potential nat level physique, if you dont mind?


#5

whoa it sounds like you are sentencing me to death, jk good input man i would also like to hear more opinons on this. Any thoughs on what Bonez thinks?

Ill upload some poses when i get back from vaca in a week.

But stats for now- Arms 18 inch
- Quads 27 inch
- Calves 16.5
- Chest 47 inch


#6

If your goal is to become a pro i say go for it. just listen to the good advise from people on here like BBB, etc.

If not then dont go for it. yet.


#7

I 2nd what the first two responders said, wait until you are a little bit older. Of course, it is up to you, but I think u have at least another 10-20 lbs of natural growth in you. People talk a lot about achieving your genetic limit prior to cycling, alas, age, nutrition and training are the key.

If you are dead set on becoming a competitive bodybuilder give yourself the STRONGEST BASE AND FOUNDATION to work with. This is not a sprint, it is a marathon. Do some research on people like Don Youngblood, and other bodybuilders who had kidney problems, dehydration etc. from their 'supplementation.'

Once you take the plunge you are more likely to stay on the drugs and 'forget' how to grow without them.

Or just dive right in and take the full cocktail of GH, insulin, tren, test and every thing else and see where that takes you.

The idea here is to get the most out of each weapon in your arsenal; nutrition and training will take you a long way, throw in some quality supplements and you go further.

Once you have gotten 90-95% out of nutrition, training and supplements then you start with your basic steroids. As you grow and get larger, stop responding as much to the basic drugs then you add in some stronger ones like tren. Once you have figured out how to optimally use tren you start your first 4-6 months of administering GH.

You see where I have gone with this? Prolonged doses/administration of many of these drugs can cause both positive&negative changes in your muscles, organs and connective tissue. Take care, and whatever you choose to do remember that it is not your trainer who wins the trophy or doesn't compete because his electrolyte balance is off and cannot maintain a muscular contraction, it is you. It is your body, your choice, and your success or failure.


#8

Recommend front loading the Test E

Personally I would also recommend a shorter higher dose cycles, especially for the younger guys. And simply speaking on different esters I have always felt prop was superior in most ways, blood concentrations especially. (And technically it is, being the lightest ester)

Test E can be injected everyday, but in which case, you could have simply used prop.

Also get some Dbol, having run test only cycles, they are great, but dbol pairs extremely well with test.

There is a reason test and dbol is such a cliche cycle.

Run an 8 weeker with prop, start shooting the prop, and about 2 weeks in start the dbol, run 5-6 weeks of it till you hit the end of the cycle.

You will see immediate gains with the prop, and once it is at full speed, throw in the dbol and your going to see very rapid gains. Use the dbol later in the cycle in conjunction with the test, not while waiting for the test to kick in no matter what ester you choose.

Ive done both, its better.


#9

Disregarding your age, you are in a better spot to do a cycle then the other guy on here talking about sustaplex. That is not saying 'go do it' or condoning it, but with the body you have built u are certainly more advanced. Arnold allegedly started taking d-bol somewhere around the ages of 16-18, but he also had a heart valve replaced (allegedly because he had a congenital heart defect, alas another thread on here is stating he had a bypass)


#10

good input here guys, i would like to hear more opinions and then go over them with my trainer since there seems to be different ways to approach this.

Here is my daily intake 380g protein
434g Carbs
107g fat
4300 cal

What do you think the other teen bodybuilders have used as a first cycle,evidently they have their training and diet spot on but most likely have been ''supplementing'' around my age.


#11

Is this a legitimate question? Or more of a rhetorical statement pointing out that some of the guys at the top of the sport liklely started using drugs early on.

If it's a legit quetion. The answer is "you'll have to ask them". Anyone saying they "know a guy and he said ..." is probably not the best source of info. And posting speculation is silly at best and potentially defamatory at worst.


#12

Of course i don't expect an answer, just saying that there are alot of guys in the same position and they seem to be doing it correctly without any major issues. It seems like its the immature kids who run orals for 6 months straight without a pct that come across health problems.

nicely said though.

Im sure i am facing the same risks as anyone who is 21.Why wouldn't my free test levels go back to what they were pre-cycle, maybe they won't peak to what they could have at 21 or so but i don't see how it would go from a certain amount to needing HRT. Any studies that prove or is this theoretically speaking?

As for the d-bol with the cycle, my trainer wants to keep it basic with 1 compound.

SO its 10wk moderate dose vs 8 week high dose....hmmmmmm more opinon's would be great.


#13

JayTM,

You're being a good sport about this... the more seasoned guys here can come across pretty harsh, and I detect quite a bit of maturity in your responses.

I don't have any advice on your cycle. I've just come off of my first one. Having been a high-level athlete in a sport similar to bodybuilding (long learning/training curve, out of the mainstream, requires a ton of commitment), and having worked with a good amount of athletes your age, I have this advice to offer.

  1. Be DAMN certain that this is what you want to do with your life. Once you start using steroids, you are making a long-term commitment in terms of the risks to your HPTA, etc... Permanent shut-down does occur.

  2. Be DAMN certain that you have the potential that your trainer thinks you do. I don't know where you live, but I know of somebody you should visit with before you make this decision. He's open minded and has trained a number of elite bodybuilders (Even a Mr. O) and all sorts of other elite athletes.

A guy he has been training since he was 18 (all natural) just got drafted in the NFL. He's down-to-earth and always willing to talk. PM me if you're interested.

There is and always will be a lot more to life than what you can see now, and I find it's best to put off decisions as drastic as starting a course of testosterone at 19.

Swole


#14

Well its pretty much universally accepted that the younger someone is the more fragile their endocrine system is. Does that guarentee problems? Of course not. But it's foolish to assume that there are no risks or that the potential risks arent serious and life-long.

Kids have fucked up their endocrine systems using AAS too early. Who knows if they did a pct or not. Who knows if their test would have naturally been low.

But you aren't facing the same risks as a 21 year old. You cant compare yourself to anyone else. Everyone is an individual. Some 21 yr olds suffer long term damage. Some 25 year olds suffer long term damage.

The risks go down as a man gets older. The risks are higher at 19 than they are at 21. And theyre higher at 21 than they are at 28. It's pretty sound logic, scientific studies present or otherwise.

Your statement about oral AAS causing problems is somewhat 'superficial', in a loose sense of the word. Liver problems are different from damaging the HPTA. The liver is resilient in very many people. It will heal eventually if not damaged beyond repair. Some people do a cycle run PCT and their T levels never bounce back to what they were. Am I saying this to scare you? Not really.

I dont really care what you do. But it seems as if you dont truly understand how the endocrine system works when people cycle steroids. That's not a knock on you. Most 19 year olds dont have nearly enough exposure to the topic to have a functioinng understanding.

Im not saying you will definitely need TRT after one cycle. No one can know that. Hopefully you aren't in the small population that has a fragile endocrine system that gets fucked up permanently from 10 weeks of inactivity.


#15

Are you really going to use the fact that other kids are irresponsible as justification? As a matter of fact yes, I do think kids at 19 doing drugs and alcohol are irresponsible. For that matter I know plenty of 23-25 year olds that are just as irresponsible with such.

I know I probably sounds hypocritical, god knows I did things when I was your age I shouldn't have, just don't use other peoples mistakes as an excuse to make your own. With that said, ultimately the decision is yours and thankfully you've, thus far, shown enough maturity to not get severe backlash from some incredibly knowledgeable people on here.

It sounds like you've got some talent. Don't be in a hurry to throw it away. There is nothing you can accomplish now that you wouldn't be just as proud of accomplishing in 2-3 years.

I don't know about you, but one of the hardest things for me to do when I was in my late teens was listening to people tell me I was wrong and accepting it. Whatever your decision, best of luck to you.


#16

I just spent a bunch of time writing and it all got wiped so im gonna sum things up and give you some opinions.

At 19, I wouldnt do an injectable cycle knowing what I know now having use different compounds ive used and younger friends of mine almost all recovering worse than me and myself recovering worse when i was 24 and cycled than now @ 29. But its your choice.

Why risk higher chance of permanently stuffing your HPTA/Testosterone production when you can wait a couple more years when the risk could be considerably less?

If you will cycle, I believe (since you seemed very disciplined with diet and I am assuming training as well) and are natural you can get VERY good benefit out of creatine + ZMA + Multivit x2 per day etc for 6 months to 1 year.

If you have tried these already effectively together correct use and dosing and are going to cycle I believe that possibly the best most effective low suppression low dose steroid is dbol.

As disciplined as you seem even 15-20 mg once morning dose I think could get you 15-20% strength gains in 8 weeks and very noticable mass.

I also believe there may be some merit in the "weekends off" dbol approach for young guys and people concerned with hpta/liver/estrogen sides. But you would need nolva on hand anyway and liver checkups in case.

One thing I would like to mention is 380gram protein/day natural @ 205lb...Holy smokes!

Im 5'11.5 270lb @20% bf (less now same weight) and on bulk I dont go over 350 now...or I shit alot of it out in the toilet and this is on bulk cycle 1g test+ other compounds I feel it does nothing extra for me.

Over 400 I actually start to feel unwell!

If it were possible to eat say 10 times per day for me or more...I might have tried but this is not possible for me and plus sleep becomes harder as...you have to eat lol. I eat 7 times per day

And you need sleep to grow.

On a cut cycle or natural I dont go over about 250 gram.

I think 380 is sky high unless maybe using insulin, gh/peptides and 1g+ test...or being very big.

You may gain more benefit out of more carbs/efa's to equal the extra protein you have as calories instead and would be more efficient for the body.

The excess protein you are having is probably working for you as extra calories being converted into a fuel source (more work for your body) I believe it would be easier just giving your body the fuel in the first place.

Just trying to give you a bit of a different view.


#17

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That is a pretty good alternate perspective in this thread.


#18

Hey man i aprreciate you taking time to write so much!

Yes my intake is usually very high, but i train very intense and sometimes i dont feel i recover as good if my protein is not 300 or more g's.I sleep 10 hours a day, take alot more than zma+creatine+multi's, I also take pre workout, diffrent types of protein and oils/seprate vitamins. Money usally isnt the issue for me so i have the option to try anything i find will help( no prohormones). Eating so much is what added 70+ pounds to my frame in under 3 years without getting any taller.

I don't know about the d-bol, I really want to keep it basic/ having keepable gains. Im not really looking for strength as much as bringing up weaker bodyparts. Maybe using hcg towards the end and tapering off the test would be better for quicker recovery? I haven't seen many people recommend a d-bol only over a test cycle regardless of stats.

But great opinion anyway and i will keep an open mind to your input/ discuss with my trainer


#19

No probs man happy to give you a different angle.

Dbol if used by experienced lifters/muscle growers can and will add permanent muscle over time...not in 4 weeks...

Your not the typical oral only juice kid that wil bloat up with water and create no muscle and loose all water=all gains after I believe.

Remember dbol aided some great physiques a decade ago+ or more and the secret I believe is to KNOW how to create muscle I believe...which is not as easy as most people think...the AAS is seccondary


#20

I'm Nick Medici's neighbor and i know their family pretty well.. im just saying if your kind of following what Medici does then it is kind of stupid.. from what i know the kid drinks while doing orals, smokes pot and eats mcdonalds for like every meal in the offseason so just saying don't be following what he does and yes he started the roids at i believe 18