T Nation

19 Y/O Thinking About TRT

Hello everybody. I hope some people here can help me as my life quality is currently at a very low point and I am starting to get more and more depressed.
Btw I am from Germany so some values are different from yours and I attached the full labs if you wanna take a look of some of the other stuff I have no idea about

I never had to complain about anything when I was 15, „sex life“ (i used to be “over potent” I would call it, always horny and therefore had many sexual encounters at that age) has been great and I was extremely energetic and fully motivated on a day to day basis therefore it was no problem for me going to the gym 5-6 times a week and building a great physique for someone at that age. Always been extremely into bodybuilding and therefore I always used to read a lot so nutrition and training is on point.

I always had some gyno which at first bothered me a lot but then I learned to live with it, although the endocrinologist back in the days told me it is only because of puberty and that it will go away later which never happened. Got blood work done I wrote down the ones that seem important, many more that I have no clue what they are, will attach pics
10.06.15:
FT3=4.1ng/l FT4=1.5ng/l FSH=1.5IU/l TSH= 2.55mIU/l Estrogen17=39ng/l Estrogen=86pg/ml Prolactin=157mIU/l ProlactinSI=7.4ng/ml TT=432ng/dl SHBG=20nmol/l DHEA=4181ug/l ANDR=1.37ug/l

I was told that everything looks fine, estrogen kinda high but this is because of puberty. Almost 2 months later I kinda started having problems with my erections, nothing too bad but I just noticed because it was difference from going 150% to 110% in that sense so I went to the endo again and got new bloodwork done.
30.07.15:
FT3=3.6ng/l FT4=1.7ng/dl FSH=1.9IU/l LH=5.1IU/l TSH=2.68mIU/ l Estrogen17=25ng/l Estrogen=50pg/ml Prolactin=219mIU/l ProlactinSI=10.3ng/ml TT=489ng/dl SHBG=32nmol/l DHEA=3685ug/l ANDR=1.13ug/l Albumin=46.4g/l

Again I was told everything was fine and I really didn’t care at the time because I was still on 110% sex life and gym going great. Over the next year sex life got worse and I started to struggle getting an erection while maintaining libido so I got blood work done withing two months twice
16.06.16:
FT3=3.5ng/l FT4=1.6ng/dl FSH=1.6IU/l TSH=1.65mIU/l LH=3.3IU/l Prolactin=246mIU/l ProlactinSI=11.6ng/ml TT=467ng/dl SHBG= 34nmol/l ANDR=1.16ug/l
14.07.16
FT4=1.7ng/dl FSH=1.4IU/l TSH=3.10mIU/l Estrogen17=23ng/l Prolactin=169mIU/l ProlactinSI=8.0ng/ml TT=467ng/dl SHBG=29nmol/l ANDR=1.57ug/l Albumin 48.7 g/l

After this is just got worse and worse, I started to feel worse, losing energy and slacking off in the gym, losing libido, no erections.
Today I have absolutely no sex life as no erections and no libido at all furthermore I went from 5-6 times in the gym to 2-3 times as I am just not motivated and energetic anymore. This puts me into a depressive state and I sometimes even have suicidal thoughts. I didn’t ger the symptoms from depression but I developed depression because of the symptoms. Lastly I always feel tired and lazy and I start to put on mostly fat weight and no muscle even though my diet and nutrition is even better than back in the day. To sum it up: my life quality is almost zero!

I went to the endo again getting bloodwork done hoping that I will be diagnosed with low T and prescribed TRT… this was at 3pm and not fasted
10.04.19:
FT3=2.9ng/l FT4=1.6ng/dl TSH=1.89mIU/l FSH=1.4IU/l LH=1.9IU/l Estrogen17 is called E2 here so I think its estradiol=16ng/l Prolactin=258mIU/l ProlactinSI=12.1ng/ml TT=154ng/dl SHBG=34nmol/l
Obviously the TT was very low so she ordered another test in order to get fasted results in the morning, I know TT goes down during the day but this value is really fucked up for a 19yo I think all in all I think my T values are fucked up for such a young age I literally feel like an old man.
16.04.19:
FSH=2.1IU/l LH=6.6IU/l TT=508ng/dl SHBG=36nmol/l free T=17.55pg/ml

Sorry for the mess and the sometimes missing values, it was different labs and sometimes she did not order full blood work and sometimes I was just missing some values.
The doc told me my values are good and that I have nothing to worry about, she told me I should go and do sexual therapy… Guys can you please help me I am so lost and so disappointed by my doctor that she really did not care about my symptoms at all only about the numbers even though my numbers are literally similar to an elder man but of course still in range, everything they care about is this stupid range. I have no other endocrinologist in town so I won’t be able to get TRT prescribed. So I thought about doing TRT myself, I am scared to do so since it would be without medical supervision. I might be able to do some basic bloodwork but a full blood with hormones and thyroid will be very difficult and if not very expensive here. I am a student and live on budget I would barely be able to afford T OTC.
Can you please help me and advise me what to do and if I should do TRT myself or try something else and what exactly my protocol at the beginning should look like.

I am really desperate!

To sum it up:
Low T levels but still in range, feel like absolute shit, no motivation, no sex life= no life quality. Doc does not prescribe TRT, what should I do and if TRT how exactly should I do it.?

Every input is appreciated

Stop going to an endocrinologist. Find a good trt doc in your area by going to
www.worldlinkmedical.com. These docs in this directory are trained by dr Rouzier and you hve a mich better chance.

When he kept telling you everything is for
Was your first warning sign you need a better doc.

You had gyno early on you say.

What’s the prolactin range and value?

Your 19 no trt doctor yet. Trt drs give you trt. I’ll have more to say. Still reading.

Signs and symptoms of Klinefelter syndrome vary widely among males with the disorder. Many boys with Klinefelter syndrome have few noticeable signs, and the condition may go undiagnosed until adulthood. For others, the condition has a noticeable effect on growth or appearance.

Signs and symptoms of Klinefelter syndrome also vary by age.

Babies

Signs and symptoms may include:

  • Weak muscles
  • Slow motor development — taking longer than average to sit up, crawl and walk
  • Delay in speaking
  • Quiet, docile personality
  • Problems at birth, such as testicles that haven’t descended into the scrotum

Boys and teenagers

Signs and symptoms may include:

  • Taller than average stature
  • Longer legs, shorter torso and broader hips compared with other boys
  • Absent, delayed or incomplete puberty
  • After puberty, less muscle and less facial and body hair compared with other teens
  • Small, firm testicles
  • Small penis
  • Enlarged breast tissue (gynecomastia)
  • Weak bones
  • Low energy levels
  • Tendency to be shy and sensitive
  • Difficulty expressing thoughts and feelings or socializing
  • Problems with reading, writing, spelling or math

Men

  • Low sperm count or no sperm
  • Small testicles and penis
  • Low sex drive
  • Taller than average height
  • Weak bones
  • Decreased facial and body hair
  • Less muscular than normal
  • Enlarged breast tissue
  • Increased belly fat

@ramo55 is this possible?

Also do you have a sense of smell?

You taking any medications?

You must do labs no later than 10 a.m because levels are lower later in the day be about 13% in healthy young men, your testosterone levels are way too low by 3 p.m, suggest there’s is something going on with the pituitary gland.

If you go to see an endocrinologist, nine times out of ten you will get quacked, these types of doctors are filling the gap for a doctor that doesn’t exists and have no clue how to properly diagnose or know what constitutes normal levels in a particular age group which is why they fixate on the reference ranges.

Your age is not being considered, your levels are in range but low for your age. These levels (TT=508 ng/dl) would more closely match a 60 year old on a good day. If you’re going to self administer TRT inject sustanon 65mg twice per week.

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Eerily enough my fluctuation between 8am and 1pm (test level wise) was only about 5%

Natural circadian rhythm suggests a 20-30%+ fluctuation within testosterone levels in normal, healthy young men

@ramo55 you’re labs aren’t terrible, not great, but not terrible either. How’s lifestyle, diet, stress levels etc, recreational drug use? Alcohol intake?

Secondly, how large is you’re penis and testicles (not asking for exact measurements) but if you had klinefelters syndrome, chances are (like 99.9% of the time) you’d have testicles of minute size and potentially a very small peen.

You can get T OTC where you live? South America???

Germany.

T is otc in germany? What about nandrolone, oxymetholone and metenolone?

Some countries have stanozolol but that stuff is like powdered LDL in a bottle

no D3 vitamin tests ?

Sorry for the tripple post, my posts always need approval before so I can’t edit them after posting so before I forget I wanted to add this:
Even though some of the symptoms of Kinefelters in boys and adults apply to me I don’t think I have it since my testicles and my penis are not small since I remember going to the urologist a few weeks ago and he would surely tell me if balls were too small.

Furthermore I wanted to add that just a few months ago I started feeling extremely cold in mostly my hands and feet but also my upped body and it doesn’t matter how much clothes I have on I would always feel this weird feeling of being cold and also laying in bed I needed a lot of blankets to not shiver and I aways needed to pay like a lot at night suddenly… tested for diabetes negative. Then I became sick and everything went away I think because my body temperature increases in order to fight infection and now after sickness it is not as bad as before but like 10-20% like before.

@systemlord
That’s exactly what I thought, fluctuations like that are not normal and in general a value like that is not for a young healthy man like me… whats the difference between sustanon, test e and test pro/cyp

@unreal24278 Again, exactly my thoughts my values are in range but not something to feel good for someone my age. My lifestyle is nothing spectacular, I am at university so always some stress level nevertheless I still had those problems in high school as well when stress was very little. I used to drink like 5-6 times a year and sometimes smoked marijuana like sometimes once in 2 month and sometimes twice a month. I don’t think my penis or my testicles are too small they are quite good but then again I don’t have no comparison. And sorry I thought OTC means on the black market like we have a similar saying likr that for blackmarker drugs, so no I could get them illegal only but will try my house doc maybe I can get them prescribed but would still need to pay top money for them as I would not have a diagnosed condition as my endo is stupid…

Guys thank you so much for all your input!! Can’t believe how a internet forum is so much more knowledgeable and actually cares about my problems… not like the docs.

@enackers Unfortunately I live in Germany, TRT is still a widely uncommon thing we don’t have any TRT clinics or anti aging clinics.

@charlie12 I have to values for Prolactin:
Prolactin=258mIU/l range is 86-324 Prolactin=12.1ng/ml range is 4-15.2
Things that apply:

  • Taller than average stature

  • Longer legs, shorter torso and broader hips compared with other boys

  • Absent, delayed or incomplete puberty

  • Enlarged breast tissue (gynecomastia)

  • Weak bones (i played soccer and got broken or at least fractured bones a lot)

  • Tendency to be shy and sensitive

  • Difficulty expressing thoughts and feelings or socialize

  • Low sperm count or no sperm (never got tested on that)

  • Weak bones

  • Decreased facial and body hair

  • Less muscular than normal (depends if training state is meant or without training, without training then yes)

  • Enlarged breast tissue

  • Increased belly fat

I do have a very good sense of smell and I do not take any medications except like Zinc, Multi, Vit D but thats no real meds

Is your penis at least 12.7 cm?
You can’t really count on a Dr telling you your testicles look small. And you can’t really compare them to internet porn cause they get the above average everything. They need to be measured via ultrasound.

Try to get a testicular ultrasound. And a pituitary MRI. You want to rule out diseases.
Also I think I read your labs and your estradiol is low. Right?

Read the links in the post below.

12.7 cm is the statistical average I believe. my penis is totally 72.1cm in length

If his erect penile length was like below 4 inches erect then I’d be concerned

I don’t actually believe the AVG is 12.7cm though (despite literature suggesting it), 12.7cm does seem a bit on the small side to me

72 cm holy crap. I see it in the USA …I just looked in the sky.

Well with all the symptoms he has indicated for Klinefelter, if his erect penis is less than 5" I think that matters

Sorry I meant 72 feet

Wait I mean kilometers

Hundred kilometres. 7200 kilometres long

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Ok. A bit slow I am I see what you did.

12.7 you reversed to 72.1

:joy:

@unreal24278 I actually think I gained an inch in height since starting trt. I’ve had a few comments I look taller. Am 42. Weird. My igf1 last check was slightly above range if that means anything.

I also think I ganied a small amount on penis. It’s now 80 cm

I agree. I think the average is closer to 5.5". But i used 5" because if he has the disease it would be smaller. I did not intend to use the average when I said 12.7cm.

@straff
I used to be very deficient in Vit D, but I got high dosed Vit D capsules for everyday use (20000iU i think) and it should be much better now as I am still maintaining levels with 5000iu daily