T Nation

18 YO Test Cyp and Dbol First Cycle


#1

Hey guys this is my second post here. My first post was about a different cycle idea but I did more research and I changed it up a bit. I’m 18 years old and I’ve been going to the gym for a year and a half. I know people say train longer. But I want to take it to the next level. I will give you guys some information on me as I did in the first post.

Stats:
I weigh 174 about 14-16% bodyfat at 5’11

Food:
3760 calories
280 protein
466 carbs
83 fat
I meal prep everyday and my dad,brother and I go through about 10 pounds of meat a day. We all gym it.
If I know I’m going to be busy I meet my calories no matter what. If that means a little dirty then that’s what i do.

Training:
I go to the gym 6 days a week for 3-4 hours.
My dad always comes with me and my bro will go with us sometimes or his girlfriend. My dad worked out when he was younger and got really big. Then he stopped and got really fat. He then lost all his weight. And then we starting working out. About a year into it he got all his muscle back then he starting using test prop and Deca.
Here are my days.
Chest and back
Shoulders and arms
Legs
Off
Chest and back
Shoulders and arms
Legs
Repeat.
I also switch up the routine every 4 months to shock the muscles.

Why I want to start:
I want to start a cycle because I want to take it to the next level. I have been lingering on this site for about 6 months and doing lots of research. About an hour a day. There are many teens that take steroids and some are safe and responsible and most are complete idiots. There are also many adults that take steroids and most are safe and responsible and some are complete idiots. I believe I am one of those safe and responsible teens because I have a great source, done my research, and have a lot of my life planned out. I go to a private school with a 3.6GPA. i want to go into the Air Force right after highschool and be an air traffic controller. I have some friends that can guarantee. And after I put my 6 years in I’m going straight to the FAA for air traffic control. I am also wanting to do some competitions. That’s why I want to take my gym life to the next level.

Here’s my cycle:
Test cyp 500mg per week (weeks 1-12)

Dbol 40mgs per day. (10mg morning. 20mg before workout. 10mg before bed. Week 1-6)

Arimidex .5mg EOD for water retention and I’ve had really bad gyno since I was 12 (keep taking until start of PCT)

HCG 500iu per week (250iu 2x week. Keep running until start of PCT)

PCT:
2 weeks after last pin of cyp.
Nolva: 40/40/20/20
Clomid: 50/50/25/25

Liver support during cycle or after?:
NAC?
Liv 52?
Milk Thistle?
(I know I’ll be taking it before I start cycle)


#2

It’s clear that you’ve done your research, so kudos for that. But here’s something you probably don’t want to hear: I wouldn’t even consider running a cycle until you feel like you’ve maxed out your natural potential. And by “maxed out your natural potential” I mean train hard and eat clean for at least 5 years.
I’m 35 years old so this is going to come as “old guy in the gym” talk, but I am glad I didn’t run a cycle until I was 30 (and it was my only cycle). I played D1 football, competed in strongman and lifted religiously for about 15 years before I decided to flip that switch. At the time I was a natural 6’1" 245 and wanted to recomposition at that weight. After 2 months I was stronger and leaner, still at 245, and have been able to maintain that look pretty well for the past 5 years. My feeling has always been the more you gain on cycle, the more you lose when you go off. So you want to build a pretty impressive natural base of mass and strength first and use AAS to put on the “finishing touch”.
So while there’s no hard and fast rule here, I would put in 5 years or more under the bar before you even think about AAS. Your 30 year old self will thank you.


#3

Thanks for the reply! Is it true that if your not at your natty potential and you do a cycle and you meet your natty potential in that one cycle (which most likely wouldn’t happen) your natural testosterone after PCT will easily maintain it all?


#4

My best advice there is to ask someone who used a similar cycle at a similar age. I’m not going to offer advice on that because I’ve never been in that situation.

But I can tell you that I’ve seen 100 kids in my training lifetime run a cycle and then go back to normal size after they go off. It could have to do w/ their diet, losing motivation to train and/or supplementation/AAS. I can’t say for sure.

But the fail safe here is to be patient, put in serious time under the bar and then consider AAS when you’re as big as you feel possible naturally.
As Dave Tate once said regarding AAS in sports: It’s a card you get to flip exactly one time. “If you need AAS to play high school football, you’ll never make it in college. If you need AAS to play college ball, you’ll never make it in the pros”.

So it doesn’t make sense to me why someone your age and weight would look to AAS to go from 175 to, maybe, 200 pounds. Get to 200-215 naturally, which believe me is possible if you really want to, and then play the AAS card down the road. Lame advice I know, and it has nothing to do with questioning your work-ethic or desire to take shortcuts. All I’m saying is that if you stay natural as long as possible you’ll be bigger and stronger later in life, longer and more sustainably than if you play that card at 18 years old


#5

Look at your stats. You are a beginner. You won’t know how to maintain the mass gained on cycle assuming that you actually gain more than water weight and muscle fluid retention. Go train for a few more years.

EDIT

Sorry, I didn’t mean to sound like an asshole, but really, I’ve never seen a kid start at your level who maintained his gains and that only leads to more cycles in larger amounts and higher frequencies without learning how to eat and train properly. I am sure most of the vets here will tell you similar things.


#6

I’m not going to sit here and write why you shouldn’t take AAS. I’m actually going to encourage you to take them. Follow everything you think you know and you’ll find out. Failure is obviously imminent if you have no clue what you’re doing, but if you truly have done your research, then do it.


#7

Thanks for the reply! But I wanted to do a cycle before the Airforce then “TRY” to stay off again until I’m 26 when I come out. But I’ll still be smashing the gym while I’m serving my time. Wouldn’t I keep my gains with a proper PCT? And if I keep training and eating hard?


#8

Thanks for the answer. Not trying to sound like a smart ass or anything but this is a for real question. If I could get up to 215 natty. And I do a cycle and get up to 200. Wouldn’t my natural testosterone easily hold my 200 from cycle? With proper PCT?


#9

First, in this sport, the true gauge of knowledge is results one has obtained. From your stats, you do not have the knowledge nor experience to maintain whatever gains you will make on steroids.

Second, you will NOT gain actual muscle tissue close to your genetic limit on steroids. This is NONSENSE. When someone inexperienced gains 30lbs, most of it is water retention and muscular fluid, especially if he’s not controlling his estrogen levels. This is why noobs who use look sloppy and bloated and seem to deflate after their cycles. Then you realise they gained a minimal amount of actual muscle and have put on a lot of fat when the excess intramuscular fluid has dissipated because they drastically increased their caloric intake upon the excitement of being on a cycle. If you are inexperienced, this will happen to you.

Third, there is the risk of permanent damage to your endocrine system. This is genetic and a proper PCT will not prevent this. Why would you risk it for 1 cycle when you can make the same amount of gains easily over a relatively short period of time at your level?


#10

No no no no no no
and fuck no.

This thread got out of hand in the span of 14 hours before I even got here… lol.

I really wanted to go point by point on what you’ve gotten wrong here, but you’re so misinformed it’s ridiculous. I don’t care how much you’ve read so far, it’s clearly not enough, or from poor sources. You made the same PCT mistakes everyone seems to mistake, among other things.

Here’s the biggest problem though. You’re 175 lbs and not lean. I would call that a problem even if you weren’t 18 years old. Your youth just makes this bullshit even worse.

Don’t try to tell yourself you’ll keep your gains . Ain’t gonna happen. It never does. They will absolutely disappear within several months to a year. I’m sorry if other people have lied to you about this. You know what’s gonna happen when they’re gone? You’re going to want to do another cycle. So let’s not pretend it’s ‘just 1 cycle, then no more for 8 years’. That’s utter bullshit. There’s a good chance you’ll end up derailing a lot of good things in your life by being so impatient.

Just keep training naturally man. There are situations where I give kids your age advise on how to do this properly, because I think they’re set up for success. You are not one of those kids. You sound intelligent enough, but you have not accumulated proper knowledge or experience to make this decision.

Just my take, but I know a lot of other vets here are thinking the same thing.


#11

Question for the future. If I wouldn’t keep gains from cycle now. Then what’s the difference when I’m older? Aren’t gains from a cycle the same gains from a cycle later on? I don’t know if you get what I’m trying to say lol. And thanks for responding!


#12

Hey man thanks for the response! You said how the 30lb people put on is mostly water weight. When I first started lifting I was 140 and I gained 34 pounds total. Do you thinks that’s mostly water weight or a mix of both? Not trying to be a smart ass btw. I’m actually interested


#13

I’m saying nobody does just 1 cycle. People think they’ll just do 1, but they don’t. You can only maintain, and build on steroid gains, if you keep using the steroids. That’s how it works.

As for your weight gain question you asked DT… Many steroids cause a person to hold a lot more water than they normally would. For instance, when I use Dbol, I add about 10 lbs to my scale weight in the first week. That’s 100% water weight. It all goes away by about 2 weeks after the cycle is over.

The gains YOU made (34 lbs) is mostly more solid. Some combination of water, muscle, and fat. I haven’t seen pictures so I can’t guess the ratios.


#14

Ok, don’t misunderstand this.

Muscle is 70% water/glycogen etc. You cannot possibly gain skeletal muscle tissue without a corresponding gain in water weight. This is why you look “flat” when you are glycogen depleted on a diet and seem to need to lose more weight to get lean than previously expected.

Now, when you use steroids,

  1. You will acquire excess water retention due to an increase in estrogen levels.

  2. You will gain a lot of fluid in the muscle.

These will disappear when you are off the cycle. A lot of noobs mistake these for actual gains in muscle tissue.


#15

Yup. Same here. There’s no such thing as keeping these “gains” after the cycle.


#16

Yeah I have super bad gyno since I was 12. It never left ): I’m really self conscience about it. I also wanted to do a cycle before surgery too haha.


#17

So what about when you guys use. I know let’s say I gain 30 pounds on cycle. I’ll prob keep like 15-20 right? Aren’t those actual gains. Not water?


#18

I don’t think you are understanding what we are writing. You will not gain much muscle on cycle because you are a NOOB. If you overeat and gain 30lbs, most will be water retention and FAT.


#19

Well no ones telling me how to eat? And isn’t everyone a noob on first cycle…


#20

Then why do you guys cycle. You guys say I’ll lose my gains. Then why do you guys cycle.