T Nation

18 Y/O Needing Help!


#1

Hi everybody,

-age - 18
-height - 6'1
-waist - 37 inches
-weight - 215 pounds

-describe body and facial hair - Facial hair is somewhat full / Armpit hair is full/
middle eastern lineage, lots of body hair/ hair on testes etc

-describe where you carry fat and how changed- Predominantly in my love handles, stomach, and butt.

-health conditions, symptoms [history] - varicocele which was treated.

-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever -no
-- real dangers! see this http://propeciahelp.com/overvi...
-lab results with ranges - *** next paragraph
-describe diet [some create substantial damage with starvation diets] - perfectly fine
-describe training [some ruin there hormones by over training] - perfectly fine
-testes ache, ever, with a fever? Used to, when I had a varicocele
-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed - 5 times a week I'll have morning wood.

LAB WORK:

I have to drive to the hospital which is a good 15 miles away to get the exact numbers and ranges, but the ranges are just from quest.

IMPORTANT NUMBERS:
TT- 437 ng/dL (done in June 2014, January 2013 was 577 ng/dL)
E2- 47 pg/mL (was 27 in January 2013)
Free Testosterone- 129 pg/mL (was 155 in January 2013)
Prolactin - 18.4 (I don't think this is a big deal, doctor said it's a bit high but there's a host of factors that can cause it to rise within the upper limits of the normal range)
FSH / LH - 2.7 / 5.1 respectively (GnRH are probably being inhibited by E2)

~

HOW MY NUMBERS WENT TO SHIT: I went on a glory bulk from January to June and stupidly gained 30 pounds. I've been eating at maintenance since then.. but haven't dropped a significant amount of weight, which leads me to believe that my E2 and TT aren't MUCH different.

My sex drive tanked around 1 year ago when I first moved into my university. Orgasm intensity, amount of sperm, random erections ALL WENT AWAY within 2 weeks of moving in. It boggles my mind how this all happened so quickly, and I haven't recovered since then. It wasn't the school I wanted to go to so I think it was a mild case of depression. But shouldn't it have receded since then?

An interesting thing is that I felt WORSE at 577 then 437 ng/dL TT ... but I still definitely don't feel fully recovered. I had a varicocele surgery between the time which both bloodworks were done

Klinefelter's Syndrome and all that stuff isn't a possibility because of normal sized testes, development, and relatively LOW GnRH function. OTC Spermchecker showed that I did have more than 20M/mL. Being that KS patients almost all demonstrate azoospermia, I don't think I fall in this category.

~

My questions to the community and KSMan, specifically:

  • 2 doctors haven't prescribed be Anastrozole or Arimidex for my E2 levels. Most of them said lose weight. Would losing weight make my E2 levels come back to normal? Is there another way I can get a script lol?
  • Is my prolactin something to worry about it? I've been supplementing with B6 just in case it is an issue.
  • Could porn cause this much desensitization? My ejaculations aren't great, I don't
    view a woman in the same sexual way that I used to....My orgasms aren't as viscous as they used to be. I am not sure if ALL that can be explained by just porn..

Disclaimer: Thyroid function is normal, had an ultrasound done the previous week.


KSman is Here
#2

Would appreciate feedback :). Particularly from KSMan.


#3

Any advice would be appreciated.


#4

One are to consider: You mention all of this occurring over 2 weeks after moving off to college. Have you considered an environmental change?

In other words, that sudden a change at the same time you change where you live seems suspicious. Did your sleep patterns radically change? Food quality? Xenoestrogen exposure?

I suggest you take your Christmas break and go back home and get back in your old groove and see if things change. If so, you need to identify what you’re doing or being exposed to at your college that is causing this.

Good luck


#5

My advice would be, listen to your doctors and lose the 30# gained during your bulk. While I can’t guarantee it, it is very likely that doing so will reduce your E2 levels (as adipose tissue is a potent aromatizer of T). OTOH, what I virtually CAN guarantee is that losing 30# of fat will make you feel better about yourself. And if after losing the weight you still don’t feel ‘right,’ you can always go back to those docs and say ‘OK, I lost the weight like you said and I still feel off–now what?’ So losing weight is a win-win for you.

In addition to thinking you don’t need them, your doctors’ reluctance to prescribe powerful endocrine-altering meds probably stems from the fact that you are currently pubescent, and the long-term effects of such meds on your developing endocrine system could be profound and permanent.

As for whether porn can result in significant desensitization, there’s a very simple way to find out–lay off the porn for a month, and see what happens. Best of luck.


#6

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
My advice would be, listen to your doctors and lose the 30# gained during your bulk. While I can’t guarantee it, it is very likely that doing so will reduce your E2 levels (as adipose tissue is a potent aromatizer of T). OTOH, what I virtually CAN guarantee is that losing 30# of fat will make you feel better about yourself. And if after losing the weight you still don’t feel ‘right,’ you can always go back to those docs and say ‘OK, I lost the weight like you said and I still feel off–now what?’ So losing weight is a win-win for you.

In addition to thinking you don’t need them, your doctors’ reluctance to prescribe powerful endocrine-altering meds probably stems from the fact that you are currently pubescent, and the long-term effects of such meds on your developing endocrine system could be profound and permanent.

As for whether porn can result in significant desensitization, there’s a very simple way to find out–lay off the porn for a month, and see what happens. Best of luck.[/quote]

Thank you for the reply EyeDentist,

The reason why I don’t want to lose weight is because I’m injured right now and any weight I do lose would be done without training any legs or lower back. I’ll probably be fully recovered in a month or two, but im not a very patient person haha. I’ll definitely go back down to a normal bodyfat when i’m fully recovered and can lift normally.


#7

Also EyeDentist or anyone for that matter, if you could answer a question for me it would be much appreciated!

My estradiol was 47 pg/mL after my bulk and my total estrogens were 170 pmol/L (normal range being <130). Before my bulk, I never had my estradiol checked but I did check my total estrogens and they were 101 pmol/L. Would it be a safe assumption that my E2 changed in a similar ratio (from 27 to 47?) or are those two values independent of each other?

It just makes me worry that my 47 pg/mL is something that I had BEFORE I gained a lot of weight, and there is another underlying organic problem.


#8

[quote]ABars wrote:
Also EyeDentist or anyone for that matter, if you could answer a question for me it would be much appreciated!

My estradiol was 47 pg/mL after my bulk and my total estrogens were 170 pmol/L (normal range being <130). Before my bulk, I never had my estradiol checked but I did check my total estrogens and they were 101 pmol/L. Would it be a safe assumption that my E2 changed in a similar ratio (from 27 to 47?) or are those two values independent of each other?

It just makes me worry that my 47 pg/mL is something that I had BEFORE I gained a lot of weight, and there is another underlying organic problem.[/quote]

Got my results will post shortly!


#9

I agree with EyeDentist.

You should focus on shifting body composition favorably. Losing fat and building some muscle. Your total E is high so you probably have some gut issues (This can be a result of a bad diet). I would start by taking supplements to support your liver and gut. You may want to look into probiotics and/or fermented foods. It would be wise to eat fermented foods once a day as these are a surefire way of at least balancing gut flora (as opposed to probiotics which most aren’t that great and are expensive.). Also, sugar feeds the bad gut bacteria, as does an overall acidic enviroment in the body. Eating clean, whole foods in a diet with lots of veggies can help balance this.

I am sure most of this is stuff you already know but, worth repeating. Also, you should really look at the sticky’s (advice for new guys, and thyroid stickies). You should check out your thyroid to atleast rule that out as a possible issue. You will find all the information you need about the thyroid in the thyroid sticky.


#10

LH/FSH contradict each other atm.

LH being 6.8, FSH being 2.0 (got my bloodwork from June). Not sure what to make of this.


#11

Thank you MUthrows94,

I agree with you. What foods are staple to a “fermented food” diet? And is this ‘bad’ gut issue something I should be concerned about, I know my dad has stomach problems but I don’t know if he’s on a probiotic or not.

Can anybody also recommend a good probiotic that I could supplement with?


#12

LH levels are pulsatile so one cannot say that there is a problem VS FSH. FSH levels are steadier and are a better indicator of LH status than LH labs. So FSH and T levels make sense.

You cannot loose weight. That can easily be from E2 that increases with fat levels, now you are stuck. If you lowered E2 and T levels rebounded, you would be better able to loose fat:

Disclaimer: Thyroid function is normal, had an ultrasound done the previous week.
There must have been a concern or you would not have a thyroid scan. Please post thyroid labs with ranges. If thyroid function is low, that can promote fat gain or make loss difficult or impossible. Please don’t tell me that your doc says your thyroid is fine as such statements are often very incorrect. You need to have been using iodized salt long-term to not have an iodine deficiency. Check your overall thyroid function by checking your body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky.

Prolactin is a big deal when its from a pituitary adinoma. E2 and prolactin are both HPTA repressive. A MRI is needed to rule out an adinoma.


#13

[quote]KSman wrote:
LH levels are pulsatile so one cannot say that there is a problem VS FSH. FSH levels are steadier and are a better indicator of LH status than LH labs. So FSH and T levels make sense.

You cannot loose weight. That can easily be from E2 that increases with fat levels, now you are stuck. If you lowered E2 and T levels rebounded, you would be better able to loose fat:

Disclaimer: Thyroid function is normal, had an ultrasound done the previous week.
There must have been a concern or you would not have a thyroid scan. Please post thyroid labs with ranges. If thyroid function is low, that can promote fat gain or make loss difficult or impossible. Please don’t tell me that your doc says your thyroid is fine as such statements are often very incorrect. You need to have been using iodized salt long-term to not have an iodine deficiency. Check your overall thyroid function by checking your body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky.

Prolactin is a big deal when its from a pituitary adinoma. E2 and prolactin are both HPTA repressive. A MRI is needed to rule out an adinoma. [/quote]

Thank you for the response!

I think I wasn’t clear in what I said. I can lose weight just fine, it’s just i’m injured right now, and it’s not something I’m very willing to do (eating at a caloric deficit whilst not training my legs, lower back, etc).

The concern with the thyroid was low energy, but that’s something that I’ve always had even with normal TSH levels.

The range for the TSH levels was 0.50-4.30 mu/L (my TSH levels were at 3.9 actually).
My free T4 levels seem optimal at 1.1 (range being 0.9-1.4). With these labs, despite the TSH being high, I don’t think I can get a script for Caber or any other dopamine agonist because my ultrasound indicated that my thyroid is normal size, doesn’t have any abnormalities, and is functioning normally. Isn’t that enough to dismiss any cause of concern?

As for prolactin, from the research i’ve read and the doctors i’ve talked to, prolactin is only a concern when it exceeds 30 ng/dL (even then, it’s a microadenoma and won’t have significant effects on your HPTA). Since it increases when E2 increases, I think that’s a more plausible explanation for it. Additionally, TSH is being secreted just fine from the pituitary gland and so is LH - isolated deficiency of one certain hormone via an adenoma is exceptionally rare in medical literature.

Also @KSman, can Anastrozole or any AI, at that rate, have a profound effect on the endocrine system of an 18 year old? I know it’s just a competitive inhibitor and works only temporary, but my doctor just mentioned ‘unwanted side effects’, which could entail a host of issues.

These are just my thoughts, I hope I don’t come off as arrogant or extremely skeptical. I’m just new to this site and still have a lot to learn. :slight_smile:

Thank you.


#14

Bump :slight_smile:

Read the Thyroid sticky will post my morning temperatures shortly.

EDIT:

I read the Stop the Thyroid Madness thing about Adrenal Fatigue and one of the tests I did was the fluctuating pupils with a flashlight. It showed that I had low levels of aldosterone or that one adrenal hormone. What should I do at this point? I’m really confused and worried.


#15

ABars, you’re coming across as an insolent child. You want people to hand you drugs to solve your issues whether or not they’ll actually have an effect.

Take control of what you have control of. Lose the fat. Eat real food. Unless you’re bed ridden, you can exercise. Just because you’re ‘injured’ is no reason to not move and carry around 30 extra pounds. That’s completely ridiculous. Can you walk? Then go walk an hour a day in the sun. Do your arms work? Do some body weight work. Pull your head out of your ass. You’re 18 and life isn’t that tough.

As far as the porn thing goes, thanks for the mental image of you sitting in your dorm room punching the clown all day. As it turns out, there is a pretty good argument that this could be relatively unhealthy.

TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE!


#16

Haha okay, I agree with you. I’m eating on a deficit now.

Additionally, I took my waking temperature and it’s 97.0 degrees. I’ll follow the protocol for the Thyroid :).


#17

Mid Afternnon temperature was 97.4.

Night Temperature was 98.4 (relatively good).

Is Iodoral the primary Iodine supplement that people use for IR? Are there any other supplements I can use? I’m kinda confused on the protocol for treating ID.


#18

@KSman,

My Free T4 is 1.1 (range being 0.9-1.4)
and my
Free T3 is 3.5 range is (2.9-4.6)

I have been waking up with low body temperatures (in the low 97s).

What can I make out of this?


#19

[quote]KSman wrote:
LH levels are pulsatile so one cannot say that there is a problem VS FSH. FSH levels are steadier and are a better indicator of LH status than LH labs. So FSH and T levels make sense.

You cannot loose weight. That can easily be from E2 that increases with fat levels, now you are stuck. If you lowered E2 and T levels rebounded, you would be better able to loose fat:

Disclaimer: Thyroid function is normal, had an ultrasound done the previous week.
There must have been a concern or you would not have a thyroid scan. Please post thyroid labs with ranges. If thyroid function is low, that can promote fat gain or make loss difficult or impossible. Please don’t tell me that your doc says your thyroid is fine as such statements are often very incorrect. You need to have been using iodized salt long-term to not have an iodine deficiency. Check your overall thyroid function by checking your body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky.

Prolactin is a big deal when its from a pituitary adinoma. E2 and prolactin are both HPTA repressive. A MRI is needed to rule out an adinoma. [/quote]

I’m sorry for originally arguing with you KSman. I need your help though.

I’m on a calorie deficit and have lost 2 pounds so far.

I ordered Iodoral, posted my ranges for T3/T4, etc. I think I have the problem with the reverse T3, as my fT3 is in the normal range.

Will ask my doctor soon to get an MRI on my HPTA/pituitary. May try to get a script for Nolvadex (my appointment is in two weeks).

Am I missing anything? Being sexually impaired is ruining my relationship, the low energy is ruining my motivation, etc…


#20

Caber is for prolactin, not a thyroid issue. If you7 do a caber trial and feel better, that is the diagnosis.

Anastrozole in male TRT dosing does not seem to have any side effects. We do see problems when the dose is too high for an individual and E2 gets too low, but the side effects are from the low E2 not anastrozole direct effects. Doc looks at literature that is based on E2–>0 for women who have estrogen positive cancers and they have really bad side effects from E2=0. But we are into E2 modulation, not elimination and the side effects for women with cancer really are not applicable at all. Doc needs to understand the context and exercise critical thinking and deductive reasoning.

T3, T4, fT3, fT4 should all be near mid range or a bit higher.
fT4=1.1 should be 11.4 or higher, so close to optimal
fT3=3.5 seems optimal
When body temperatures are low and fT3 is good, then rT3 might be the cause, blocking ft3 from entering the cells.

TSH should be near 1.0, the fact that your TSH is in range is meaningless as the ranges are meaningless. Your high TSH suggests that there is not enough iodine in you diet.

Read the thyroid basics sticky. There are 7 stickies in total.

Iodine: There are other products that work as well. Selenium is essential!!!