18 Y/O Coach Wanting to Cycle Test

Hello everybody,

I am an 18 year old personal trainer, i’ve been lifting for nearly 2 years, running P/P/L I’ve gone from a 127 pound 16 year old, into an 193 pound 18 year old. yet, not enough people take an unexperienced 18 year old with a “above average” body serious enough to be coached. in fact, many people often tell me that i’m “not big enough” to be training people. ( whatever kind of bullshit that is )

needless to say, my progress has slowed centerfolds, no plateaus, but the beginner gains are definitely gone.

the gym is my entire life and i do not mean that lightly, But my HEALTH is my #1 priority. I understand juicing comes with it’s side effects, and I’m hoping to understand more on this topic, but these forums and back & forth on so many things i decided to make own thread to hopefully get a more personalized answer.

my primary goals of this cycle

  • Look jacked as mfer so i’m taken more serious in my profession

  • Increase my primary lifts

( also i really want a thick beard )

i would like to cycle “Test E” 450mg/wk for 8wks.
( I’m not sure what an efficent PCT would look like for this )

My questions

  • If i do this cycle, And key in on all training components and practice an efficient PCT how much muscle/strength would i expect & how much should i expect to lose post cycle?

  • What side effects are LIKELY to occur? (i already have acne, so idgaf about that one)

  • Are there chances of having severe side effects later in my life from such a beginner cycle?

  • Would it be worthwhile to only cycle once? Or is it not worth all the hassle.

and most importantly… would the cycle make my beard thicker?

thank for anyone for replies, i understand that this is quite a big post.

and also, if anyone has ANY tips on staying as healthy as possible while on cycle, please drop them. :slight_smile:

I was not aware that running a cycle made you older and wiser. That’s a new one.

At the end of your eight week cycle you will still be 18 and people won’t take you any more seriously than they did before. You think it’s your age holding you back—and you’re probably right—so your answer is to do something that will in no way change the underlying premise. What it will do is make people take you even less seriously. An 18 year old trainer who needs to take steroids to get noticed is pretty low on the list of people who get respect at a gym.

You want to be taken more seriously and get more respect in your profession? Do what every other professional has done since time immemorial: earn it. And you don’t earn it by lifting for two years while simultaneously having the advantage of being young and free. You have to pay your dues. Society writ large will not choose the inexperienced new guy over the more experienced older guy to do any job ever. That’s not how this works. It’s not your fault. You didn’t do anything wrong. But don’t think you can find a shortcut for your career path without there being some kind of consequence. There is. Always.


Well firstly one needs to understand the basics of what happens to an individual’s body when he/she partakes in a cycle of anabolic steroids. When one takes an androgen at a dose that is higher than what his body would naturally produce to maintain homeostasis a negative feedback loop is created. When the exogenous androgen is introduced, your anterior pituitary drastically cuts back on the production luteinizing hormone (LH) and Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH). My knowledge is a bit rusty but I believe FSH stimulates the testes to produce sperm and both LH and FSH stimulate intratesticular production of testosterone. With drastically reduced FSH spermatogenesis is temporarily arrested and with very little to no LH or FSH your body will cease to produce natural testosterone. Typically the average male will have a fully developed endocrine system by his early to mid twenties, however this can vary a lot, with some men being fully developed much younger or older, typically the advice is for an individual to postpone cycling until his early to mid twenties. Whether the average male at age 18 will notice a significant difference stunting in development I can’t tell you however if you take a look at teenagers treated with high dose testosterone for tall stature as adults they were found to have lower overall testosterone production, total sperm count and sperm morphology than those who weren’t treated with testosterone. Long-term effects on testicular function of high-dose testosterone treatment for excessively tall stature - PubMed

I’m sure you know aromatising steroids can prematurely fuse epiphyseal plates, however considering you are eighteen I doubt you’d be concerned about this. The potential for hypertrophic cardiomyopathy may be present with concurrent, long term use of anabolic steroids. The enlargement of the heart (if it does occur) may or may not be associated with diastolic and systolic dysfunction as studies are conflicting and the severity of said possible dysfunction has yet to be determined (you said you were hoping to understand more about this topic so I’m gonna link a few studies)

You questions

  • If you choose to continue with your plan there is no telling how much you will gain or lose, it depends on how well you respond to androgens in general, how fast you recover, whether you train for strength or hypertrophy etc.

  • Side effects that are likely to occur once again can’t be determined, some people get no sides on a gram of test+ per week and some people get gyno on TRT

  • I mean… there’s always the possibility that you don’t recover and need to be on TRT for the rest of your life or that somehow you have every negative genetic predisposition in the world when it comes to heart disease and somehow you are so unlucky that you run into heart trouble or that your hematocrit climbs up so high you have a stroke but having said this is like saying you will get serotonin syndrome if you take an antidepressant… the chances are so low it’s not really worth worrying about. There is the possibility of gyno which would then require surgery if not treated if you don’t control estrogen and whatnot. If you are genetically predisposed to acne be wary about the possibility of cystic acne or very severe acne that could cause scarring

  • Well this is a tough one, personally I’d say no, if you start cycling you should be in it for the long haul, however there is a study (can’t find it) showing athletes who have previously been exposed to supraphysiologic doses of AAS have differences in the amount of and volume of fast twitch muscle fibers in certain regions and overall strength, so it’s clear that cycling, probably even just once, does permanently change body morphology.

As to the beard comment, if this is a serious question… then yes testosterone is 5 ar reduced into dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT is responsible for secondary sexual characteristics such as facial hair growth, penile growth during puberty etc therefore I would hypothesize having excess DHT in an individual’s system would cause extra body hair growth including that of facial hair.

I’m not recommending you run this cycle, however I’m not gonna tell you what to do since I’m not your dad and I’m probably right around your age give or take five months therefore what I say doesn’t really matter anyway, I’m just laying out the facts. To stay as healthy as possible one could make sure to get enough AEROBIC exercise and donate blood as much as possible to avoid excess thickening of the blood, monitor blood pressure, lipids etc.


Effects of anabolic steroids on the muscle cells of strength-trained athletes - PubMed (differences in muscle fibers in natural and non natural athletes)

http://circheartfailure.ahajournals.org/content/3/4/472 (small study saying steroids are associated with heart dysfunction)

Left ventricular function is not impaired in weight-lifters who use anabolic steroids - ScienceDirect (small study saying steroids don’t cause heart dysfunction)

Androgenic anabolic steroids and arterial structure and function in male bodybuilders - ScienceDirect (study showing bodybuilding at a competitive level impairs heart function however heart function is impaired in both natural and steroid using bodybuilders therefore AAS per se isn’t associated with heart abnormalities)

Cardiovascular manifestations of anabolic steroids in association with demographic variables in body building athletes - PMC (interesting study tracking 267 athletes on cycle, no heart abnormalities were found during the study)

I have a few more studies showing steroid cycles up to 20 weeks in length (tracked) don’t have any measurable negative impact on human cardiovascular function, however many of the studies aren’t published to the public and I doubt I can post .PDF files on T-nation (steroids and heart function in rats and other animals is a different story, but rats seem to get affected by lots of things humans aren’t affected to, however the fact that rats, mice, dogs etc show LVH and sometimes heart dysfunction after prolonged AAS exposure sometimes even at low human equivalent doses possibly indicate carryover to human heart function, however I personally believe in my professional non professional opinion that if used responsibly and the individual is in good health without serious genetic predisposition that most AAS when used responsibly are far less harmful than most other recreational drugs and may even be relatively harmless but only time will tell (if any large scale studies are ever published). Also I’m gonna post stuff like this occasionally because I feel like it may contribute positively towards potential decisions people make that could have impact later on in life therefore if I can help in any way it’s probably worth posting


My man, I couldn’t have asked for a better & well written response. genuinely appreciate it!

out of curiosity, do you have any personal experience with PEDs? you seem very knowledgeable on the subject!

& i will definitely will give those links a read! also, do you think it would be worthwhile to head to a doctor for a blood test prior to my cycle? do you think i could find anything useful in my blood that i could use to make a more efficient cycle?

i definitely still need to know ALOT more on this topic before i risk my health & jump to any conclusions but i’ve noticed a trend that most people who have taken PEDs say they’re really not that bad at all, and it’s only media hype & idiots who don’t know what they’re doing that give the T a bad name

That’s absolutely true. With some exceptions. One of those exceptions is age-related. You are already on a cycle: it’s called being an 18 year old male. You have naturally high levels that I pay thousands of dollars a year to attain. Enjoy these brief few years where you have the ability to train like crazy, eat like there’s no tomorrow, and sculp the body you want. You won’t regret it.

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I could be completely misinformed, but i’ve heard things that doing a cycle with an anabolic steroid whilst in your teens can yield the best results?

something about stimulating the muscles at a level they’ve never been stimulated before while theyre still growing due to my young age will make them have higher growth potential later on in life than if i didnt do a cycle

( i clearly have very miniscule knowledge on this topic, & i heard all of that from youtube, so it could easily be bro science ) hahah.

I personally think you should hold off before cycling, when you have extensive knowledge in the subject you can make a decision. Steroids are given a bad name by those who abuse it and those who use it but don’t know what they are doing and get side effects then blame it on the steroids when the real reason these side effects/ issues came about in the first place was due to improper use. If you are dead set on running this cycle you want bloods of you LH, FSH, total and free test, SHBG, albumin, cholesterol and if possible get a measure of your current heart function, however that isn’t absolutely required, I’d just recommend it.

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Screw all of that, just get stronger, like insanely strong at all of your lifts, be humble, and maybe compete in a few shows (bodybuilding or powerlifting), and people will come to you. People constantly come to me for exercise guidance and meal plans because I’ve built my reputation up as someone who takes this lifestyle seriously, as I’m the strongest lb 4 lb squatter and deadlifter (aside from poverty bench lol) in the area all at the age of 18. Show people you train hard and then you’ll come off as more credible

I’m sorry, but the very fact that you are considering a cycle right now and the reason is exactly why you don’t deserve the professional respect you’re looking for. Your clients need someone who has the knowledge and background to improve their bodies and overall health. Building your body naturally will give you a much stronger experience base than simply jabbing a needle in your ass will.
Anyone who tells you that you’re “not big enough” to be training people is an idiot; I’d be hesitant to train with you because at 49 years old I assume I’ve acquired more knowledge through my years of trial and error in the gym than you could have by the time you’re 18; and that’s not intended to be a slam against you, it’s just seems like common sense.

I hope the beard comment was a troll; honestly I hope this whole tread was a troll.


If this was true, you wouldn’t use AAS, especially at your age.

How tall are you?

How lean are you?

How many clients do you currently work with? The best way to be taken seriously is to build a reputation for delivering results. Ben Bruno looks like a schlub (and I say that with love), but he’s easily one of the most successful coaches today. Know your shit, deliver fanfuckingtastic results to everyone you work with, and you’ll be taken seriously as a coach. But that takes, 'ya know, time and patience.

P.S. - “MMA Conditionist” isn’t a thing. What’s your martial arts background?


Studies found in my article about bodybuilding deaths:

AAS abuse associated with permanent, irreversible kidney damage: Development of Focal Segmental Glomerulosclerosis after Anabolic Steroid Abuse - PMC

AAS abuse associated with heart disease and cardiovascular-related death: Cardiac and Metabolic Effects of Anabolic-Androgenic Steroid Abuse on Lipids, Blood Pressure, Left Ventricular Dimensions, and Rhythm - PMC

AAS abuse associated with impaired cardiovascular function: Long-Term Anabolic Androgenic Steroid Use Is Associated with Increased Atrial Electromechanical Delay in Male Bodybuilders

Bottomline is there’s zero reason for an 18-year old to use gear. There’s even less reason for an 18-year old to use when it’s simply to get in shape to get more coaching clients.

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You will just be thought of as a stupid 18 year old.


This is such an amazing post man.


And the fact that the OP didn’t even acknowledge it speaks volumes about him. Good, honest advice that goes against what I want, or someone throwing a bunch of science at me with no real answer to my question? I’ll just do it, what does the old guy know anyway, right?

And @Chris_Colucci, ‘Ben Bruno looks like a schlub’…funny, I thought the same thing (as in I used the same word, schlub). But the guy knows his shit, no argument there.


Agh I’m going to get flamed so badly for posting this… The study posted on kidney damage and AAS abuse, I’ve seen this study and I’m not sure if it was steroids that caused the kidney damage. focal segmental glomerulosclerosis is more likely to be related to abuse/use of diuretics. While AAS probably does play a minor role, especially more toxic ones like methyl 1 testosterone and possibly AAS primarily metabolized by the kidneys (oxandrolone) I believe the undocumented use of diuretics and consuming 550 grams of protein per day for a decade probably caused more strain than the use of AAS. Granted once damage is done it’s easier to cause damage, an already damaged kidney is probably more prone to injury from AAS than a relatively healthy one.

As to anabolic steroids and cardiovascular health, all these studies are far too small to really be of any clinical significance, I can find and post quite a few studies stating the use of anabolic steroids is not associated with impaired heart function or sudden cardiac death, however once again we don’t have a single large scale study backing up either claim. while it’s a no brainer that AAS are very likely to accelerate the process of atherosclerosis, especially orals derived from dihydrotestosterone, so does eating a shitty diet, being overweight or obese (which sadly the majority of today’s population is), smoking, drinking in excess etc.

The big dead bodybuilder article covers a very true and worrysome fact, today’s bodybuilders are dropping dead at young ages, just recently we had Rich Piana and Dallas Mcarver die (RIP). However there is a massive difference between a dude cycling some test and what these guys were doing. Modern day pros tend to consume a cocktail of beta 2 agonists, stimulants (amphetamines, coke etc.), Hgh, insulin, synthol and other SEO’s, thermogenic compounds such as DNP and whatnot. Many of these drugs have direct, instant cardiotoxic effects and may contribute to the deaths of these bodybuilders much more than AAS. If we look at bodybuilding from the 50s 60s and 70s where AAS was widespread, albeit in much lower doses without most of the other additions many of these bodybuilders lived to be 70-80. Sure you can say “but Arnold has had three heart attacks”… Yea but he’s been using steroids since he was about fifteen and he was born with a heart defect. I’m sure AAS are cardiotoxic to some extent as has been evident via multiple rodent studies and shown by exposing human heart cells to ungodly concentrations of testosterone, however I believe the issue is overblown due to stigmatisation of these drugs

The issues with an 18 year old using steroids is
A: most 18 year Olds aren’t ready or mature enough to tolerate the power and side effects of AAS
B: there is a real possibility of causing permenant damage to the individuals endocrine system, and this is serious shit, no one wants to be on lifelong TRT if they can help it and typically 16-18 is when testosterone levels are at their highest, why ruin a good thing
C: most 18 year Olds have no clue what the fuck they are doing and end up giving steroids a bad name

Kids, especially teenagers don’t like being told they are idiots, ridiculed or being flamed, it makes them feel bad. Rejection sucks, when people talk down to me due to my age I tend to quickly agree with them to stop the berating and then I tune out. If someone is shitting all over me due to my age without giving a respectful debate I tend to tune out completely. I’m aware an individual such as myself is younger and therefore less experienced than adults, however I’m certainly not an idiot that needs to be talked down to (just pointing this out because I see people ridiculing kids on here quite a bit and typically these kids are just asking a question). The beyond scared straight approach for teenagers usually doesnt work and in some cases can make the situation worse (this is my opinion, everyone is entitled to their own opinions). The only way to really deter a teenager hellbent on using in my opinion is to lay out all the facts in an unbiased way and be honest, supplying them with the information on the potential risks is usually enough to deter said kid from using, as most kids don’t want to risk things like not being able to get an erection, having compromise fertility, gyno etc. Sadly most teenagers aren’t going to be thinking about long term cardiovascular health either, it’s more about the here and now as teenagers are impatient, and hearing about negative acute side effects can be very off-putting.

That being said I do find it strange so many teenagers come to this forum asking whether they should cycle, it does lower the quality of this forum somewhat, maybe there should be a topic dedicated to helping teenagers so these should I cycle threads aren’t constantly littering the pharma section.


@unreal24278 I wish I was as mature as you are when I was your age… I’m not that mature even now at 22.

I was also 18yo and I was irresponsible as hell back then, as most of 18yos are… and also at the age of 18 I still had no clue about steroids and I believed in “hard work and crap thing”.

So, no, if I was about to hire a trainer I’d most likley go for someone at least older than me. Unless you were reccomended to me by someone I trust. So reputation is the key.

That doesn’t mean you are even close to your full natural potential. So keep pushing.

If you looked so jacked it’d be obvious that you are on steroids. And I’d rather be trained by average 18yo guy, than by 18yo on steroids. Because if you are risking that much with playing with your own body - then I can just imagine what you would do to mine… that being said, as a natural, I’d also most likley choose a trainer who’s natural too.

If you still don’t know to do PCT efficiently, then this isn’t for you. And you didn’t even mention AI, and also I’d personally use HCG too on low to moderate dose, just not to risk anything.

At your age, yes.

Stay natural bro, you won’t regret it :wink:

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You’re correct, MMA Conditionist isnt a real thing,
just an abbreviated way of saying “Mixed Martial Arts Conditioning Specialist”
Thank you for linking those studies! As mentioned above, i mainly wanted to learn more on the topic at hand so i greatly appreciate when people link studies, rather than just personal opinions.

My belief of taking test & magically becoming a more successful trainer comes from some local trainers in my gym who have been juicing for years, they told me once they started taking steroids, their clientelle multiplied exponetionally, they said “Gotta look the part to play the part”.

words cant express how much ALL of your responses have helped me, i seriously appreciate them. ( @yubs @unreal24278 @iron_yuppie @teennacho @Merkava4 @probnit8 ) ALL of your responses have GREATLY helped me, if i didnt come to this forum, i would definately still be in the mindset of TESTOSTERONE = SUCCESS.

after realizing my plan of taking one cycle & hoping for permanent life long results isnt possible, it’s clear that juicing is not for me, and i shouldnt make decisions at such a young age that can fuck me up for life. seriously, this forum couldve saved my life <3


Maybe not flamed, but I do feel it necessary to point out why you’re wrong. The biggest issue is the fact that you felt it necessary to further downplay the potential health risks this kid would be facing by knocking the info provided. Big picture, that didn’t really help anything.

Nobody wins a "my study beat your study’ showdown because they can go on forever, but it would’ve been better if you at least addressed the studies accurately.

You’re comfortable making that very big leap in assuming there was undocumented diuretic use? It’d be better to stick with facts.

Again, not a fact. He used gear for a decade but “regularly consumed >550g protein/day”. At the time of the study, he was 5’11" and a fairly lean 295 pounds, so it’s just about 2g per pound of bodyweight. But nothing suggests he was necessarily eating that much for that long. You’re making another assumption.

If you say so. Dozens of studies looking at cardiovascular markers in almost 1,500 people and a study specifically looking at dozens of competitive bodybuilders (pretty much as specific and relevant a population as you can get for our purposes here).

No problem though, people can always have the opinion that a study isn’t of clinical significance for various reasons. Sort of comes back to the whole “study vs study” thing being a moot point at best.

Long story short, the issue seems resolved and it looks like the kid made a good decision at the end of the day. So, yay.

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Gotcha. Again, what’s your martial arts background?

That’s not how it works. Unless they’re selling AAS, which isn’t uncommon.

It can help (though gear isn’t necessary to look the part). Having a portfolio of client results helps much more.

That’s good and all, but it can actually save your business too. Spend more time in the Personal Trainer’s Thread, less time in the Pharma section.

I apologize for downplaying the risks, that wasn’t my intention. What is pretty cool though is I believe a large study is currently underway in which AAS users aged 18-60 are being given blood and urine tests, semen analysis, testicular ultrasound, ECG, ECHO and CT calcium scores. The results will probably be out in a year or two, I’m actually really interested to see what the results will be. I made the claim about diuretics use because the few competitive bodybuilders I know use them pre contest, I thought it was a given thing that most bodybuilders did before contest