T Nation

17 y/o Football/Baseball Player ?'s


#1

Hello, my name is Jack I am 17, I play football and baseball for my highschool. I have been lifting since my freshman year and have seen little improvement, most improvement ive seen I could probably account to just growing. Ive tried many different workouts/diets etc im what you could call one of the skinny bastards considering I am 6'2 and only 170 lbs. I need to seriously gain strength/size for this upcoming football season I play defensive end and currently I am a bit undersized for the position I was thrown around quite a bit last year, but we are a 3 time championship team and I would like to continue that. I am also a pitcher for my baseball team.

But to get to the point, ive been lifting all this time and have not seen many improvements, ive been guided by coaches and the sports scientist at my school improved my diet and done the correct excercises im looking for help contribution of knowledge of any kind.
I tried a 6 day a week workout plan most of this summer, first day chest/tri 2nd day back/biceps 3rd legs and shoulders repeat then the 7th day a rest day. Well I noticed some improvement in leg strength but very little in my upperbody. My friend wants to try a new program where we throw in a day of running a day for abs and a seperate day for shoulders giving the body 7 days of rest before we lift the same muscle group again. Ive only done this for a week ive noticed a slight improvement in my bench. Ive heard of overworking yourself and I believe this may be a solution. I believe I eat a solid diet, take vitamins in the morning eat a large breakfast eggs and toast. A good lunch usually a large sandwich and some chicken and a large dinner of meat carbs. I also have around 2 protien shakes a day. I also drink as much water as possible. Any sort of help is very much appreciated thank you -Jack


#2

Begin by writing down everything you each on a daily basis and calculate the calories, protein, fats, and carbs.

Then bring this information along with your detailed training program back to us and you'll have planty of people willing to help.


#3

Yes. Do this. And don't puss out and say you can't write it down or you forgot or some other excuse.

As for training, I highly suggest the Westside for Skinny Bastards plan (1 & 2). Go read up on it, you skinny bastard.


#4

As much as I [i]hate[/i] keeping food logs, I would have to agree on that idea (I don't keep one because I have, from a lot of experience, a very good idea of how much I need to eat to bulk up or lean down). In your case, it seems that you probably are not eating nearly enough to put on more quality size. I think if you logged everything for a week, you would get a much better idea. For instance, how many eggs are you having for breakfast? What kind of protein shakes are you taking? The description you provided of what you eat on most days could swing 500 to 1,000 calories depending on how much that really is... and that's a huge difference.

On a separate question - That is one of the more interesting sport/position combinations I have ever heard. A pitcher AND a defensive end? Pitcher and QB? Sure, makes sense. Even pitcher and WR. But I was a little thrown by defensive end. Hey, whatever you enjoy!

Come back to us with some more details and maybe we can help you more then.

Kuz


#5

Lol well believe it or not im a defensive end and pitcher. I never played football before my sopohmore year but I guess they saw big opportunity with my height and trained me on the varsity team where yes I got my ass kicked everyday.. as for a QB for somereason I cannot throw a football very well.. lol I can throw a baseball 85mph but not a football 30 yards.

Oh and yes my other position for offense is Tight End, currently I can run a 4.7 40 yard dash, but the coaches are trying to pull my leg right now I think saying they need another offensive tackle and im the only one up for it .. yeah right. Your thinking what kind of scrub team is this? We play on the big island of Hawaii and have won 3 div 1 or 2 titles in the last 3 years, the last year we went undefeated into semi finals in states. One of our players signed to Washington and another to the Us olympic 19 and under Rugby team, also not mentioning we had the smallest line in the state last year averaging around 210 lbs. We are a private school with only 300 students check us out : www.hpa.edu

Ok I will start a log, and read up on the site some more. Problem with telling you my lifting schedule is I dont know the names for most of the lifts.. but I could basically describe I guess lol but I can give you that right now.

Day 1: Chest and Triceps
As Always I start off by streching and warming up
I begin with Bench Press
155 10 reps
175 6 reps
185 4 reps
195 1 rep
185 4 reps
175 6 reps
155 10 reps
135 12 reps
115 20 reps

Incline Bench press
135 10 reps
155 8 reps
135 10 reps

Dumbell Press
110= 55 lb dumbells 10 reps
120 8 reps
110 10 reps

Incline Dumbell Press
70 10 reps
80 8 reps
70 10 reps

Flys
70 10 reps x3

I usually go over to machines to finish chest with the bench machine I work on my explosive power and out of everything ive done ive seen alot of improvement in my explosive power in both my legs and arms.

Triceps:
I lay on my back with a curl bar and bring the bar down to my forehead and extend 3 sets of 10 reps 75 lbs

I move over to the machine where I go on my knees and pull rope over my head same thing 3 sets of 10 reps 70 lbs.

To finish off my triceps I move to a bench grab a 35 lb dumbell and put one knee on the bench extending the dumbell behind me working the full extension of my tricep. 3 sets of 10 reps again.

Day 2: I do a 3 mile run that is cross country hills and slopes all the fun.

Day 3: Work on abs and go down to the beach and get some good swimming in.

Day 4: Bicep and back workout
I usually start with back doing seated rowing on the machine and with dumbells
3 sets of 10 reps again for both 155 on the machine and 30 lbs dumbells.

I then get on the lat pulldown machine and lean back and pull the bar to my chest 3 sets of 10 reps 100lbs.
Then biceps I met a UFC fighter guy and he lifted with me once and he had me do 7 7 and 7 he calls it with a 75lb curlbar. Well I do 3 sets of 7 7 and 7.

Then I do dumbell curls I usually grab both 30 lb dumbells and 20 lb dumbells. Sitting down I do 5 reps on both arms with the 30 lb dumbell then immediately grab the 20's and do 10 reps on each arm I do this 3 times.

Day 5: Legs and shoulders
I start with legs doing squats
I do a pyramid system with squatts this is freeweight also.
135 10 reps
225 10 reps
315 10 reps
225 10 reps
135 20 reps

Then I move over to machines leg extensions I think they are called just sitting down and pushing the bar up to straighten your legs. And sitting calf raises I switch off between the 2 machines I do 3 sets from each machines. 10 reps on the extensions of 200lbs and 40 reps of 135 on the calf raises. To finish my legs I get on the squatt machine and work explosive power again with only around 275 lbs depending how sore I am 3 sets of 10 reps.

For shoulders I only work with light weights like 10lb dumbells considering I have tendonitis in both shoulders and am looking towards a pitching career I just lift the weight in front and to the sides 3 sets of 10 reps each.

Day 6 and 7 are rest days but with my lifestyle living in Hawaii I couldnt call any day a rest day usually out surfing or swimming.

And I will begin my food log today thanks for the replies and help.


#6

The tendinitis in your shoulders is probably the result of too much benching. You are only 17 and already heading down the road to a short career. The honest truth is that bench presses are pretty worthless to a pitcher. They don't allow for natural articulation of your shoulders as a result of your shoulder blades being pressed into the bench and therefore immobilized. It also contributes to an imbalance of both strength and muscle mass in the front of the shoulder joint.IF YOU ARE BENCHING, YOU ARE ASKING FOR A RUINED PITCHING ARM.

Go buy a book called "Fit to Pitch" by Tom House. He is the guy who worked with Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson. Not all of the info is great, but pay close attention to the sections on building up you rotator cuff. Your goal is not strength but velocity and this requires a different type of training.

Unless you are very fortunate, most of your high school coaches are no more qualified to give you advice on training than the janitor. I hate to sound so elitist, but I coached at the high school level for three years and the college level for four and found very few people who had a damn clue about these subjects.

At 6'2" and 170, your future is not as a d-end or tight end. Just facts. However, an 85 mph fastball can get you to the next level. Decide what your goals are and train accordingly. Besides, any chance you had of gaining weight for this football season are all but gone. One month is not enough time to see any appreciable difference for someone with your build.

Read my posts on the "Difficulty Gaining Weight" thread in the Beginners section for advice on your diet and training. Dump the bench and add in lots of work for your rotator cuff. I also noticed a very poisonous theme in your posts- you keep making reference to machines. MACHINES BAD. FREE WEIGHTS GOOD. Do not deviate from this principle.

As much as you want all of your goals to come to fruition at the same time, it can't happen. However, you can maximize your baseball skills and get some carryover for football. Look at pictures of Ryan and Roger Clemens from early in their careers and later on. Neither were concerned with "bulking up" but both gained an appreciable and impressive amount of muscle.

I work with guys just like you all the time and you just have to be patient and smart. The results will come.

Good Luck!

Ti350


#7

i could write something really long up, but more importantly...

you live in hawaii. you get to play football for a good team.

ENJOY YOUR LIFE. dont get consumed in the gym man, i mean do it as much as you need to but please, realize some of us live in fucking middle america and the only beach we have is warm because of the nearby nuclear power plant hah.


#8

It's too late for this year-you do have the rest of your life though to unlearn bad habits. If you want to be bigger and stronger you must lift heavier weights. The first thing I would suggest is to DECREASE weight on your squats (maybe to 225lbs) and go at least to parallel every rep. From there you can start to build. I can guarantee you that you are not squatting 315lbs ten times to parallel. You should spend most of your time working legs and back, eating and sleeping. I have just given to you what it took me many years to figure out on my own. Read and reread this website and be willing to spend years building the machine. And try to stay low this year- as a d-end most of what you will be doing is containing the run and rushing on pass plays-no reason to stand up tall until you are jumping to bat down a pass.


#9

lol ^ I know how to play my position, but the guys ive been thrown at to train against have killed me just because of my lack of size, look up max unger hes going to be starting O-line for Oregon next year he kicked my ass every day my sopohmore year.

The bench press is just for football strength, I do all sorts of rotator cuff excercises also already I have a pitching coach who played in college was going pro but got hurt... sad story for most athletes.

As far as my football coaching we have some of the best coaches in Hawaii if not the whole U.S. my line coach is Bern Brostek ex center for the Rams, hes the one who is in the weight room with us mostly but I didnt have a chance to lift with him often to learn because of baseball season but he did gain one of my friends over 10 lbs in a month or so and I know he wasnt juicing it.

I read the westside for skinny bastard workout and seems like they dont seem to have you do many different excercies? Does this mean by the workout program I wrote down im over working myself?

I started taking down what I eat everyday and I ate over 3000 calories yesterday and didnt gain a lb, but this new workout schedule of giving a full week rest to muscle has really worked I think, people are already saying I look bigger.

Thanks for the help ill give it a rest to benching I suppose. -Jack


#10

Dude-
I had the same issues my sophomore year of high school. Undersized for football and I had a weak arm in baseball. The solution- Squats and heavyweight gainer 900 by Champion. Continue to do you flexibility training for you r throwing arm and long toss 3x per week. I gained 30 lbs and my velocity went from 79 to 87. The 30lbs had a tremendous impact on my football performance. Just keep your speed training up. For football I would also work in some sandbag and odd object lifting. And never underestimate the killer instinct. My brother was a 5'8" 175 lb linebacker who demolished people b/c he's a tough little SOB. He's also an Army Ranger but thats another story. Good Luck.


#11

Search the Massive Eating articles.
GREAT INFO


#12

Do whatever you want, but understand that the conditioning needs of a football lineman and a pitcher are about as opposed as it gets. The similarities begin and end with your lower body. Big, strong legs are a must for both and a good core is essential to everything an athlete does.

It is fortunate that you have good coaches, but just be sure to look beyond your own circle and start educating yourself.

My point concerning your goals is that you will have to gain AT LEAST 50 POUNDS to be even a small college prospect at your positions and that is a very conservative estimate. It also doesn't matter how tenacious you are if you simply don't have the requisite physical tools.

Yes, we have all heard about the 5'1", 120 pound noseguard that could eat lead and shit bullets, but at what level? I personally experienced this as my coach called me the toughest sonofabitch he ever coached (that included a number of SEC and NFL standouts) and when I got to college, my 230 pound linebacker ass just got hammered until I put on another 20 or so. You are, however, a baseball prospect right now with your velocity.

Whatever you decide, go for it with all you've got and try to enjoy the process.