T Nation

15 Week Cycle

ok here goes. I am 23 I am 175 pounds and 5ft 8. I have been training seriously for 3 years mostly with strong man and trying not to put to much mass on just add as much strength as possible I am now benching around 300lbs on a good day

but now I want to try my hand at bodybuilding:).I am going to do a 15 week cycle of test enanthate and deca nd heres how the cycle goes:-

week 1-5 600mg test enanthate
week 6-10 800mg test enanthate
week 11-15 600mg test enanthate
week 1-15 300mg deca

my pct consists of only nolvadex up to now but I will add hcg if some one can please help me with the dosage and length of pct with clomid.

so my question is what do all the gear gurus on the page thing of this cycle and how can I improve it.

Thanks every one looking forward to hearing your comments:D

You want to try your hand at bodybuilding but don’t want to gain too much mass? I really don’t know what to say about that. I have heard plenty of people say they don’t want to gain mass but none of them said they want to be bodybuilders. Odd.

A 15 week cycle is not ideal. Go with 12 weeks as the absolute maximum. Go shorter if this is your first cycle.

Your pyramid dose of T is silly and pointless. It is outdated protocol that is no longer used. Pick one dose and stick with it.

You say you want to get stronger. Deca is not the ideal drug for strength gains. You also must end the deca 2.5-3 weeks before you end the test.

hCG is not used for PCT.
I don’t recommend both clomid and nolvadex but some people like to use both.

You can improve this cycle by doing plenty more reading. Start with the stickied threads. Read all of them.

sorry for the misunderstanding i meant i didnt want to gain mass while doin strong man i just wanted to get stronger not bigger now i want to be alot bigger. ye sorry that was suppose to be week 1-13 of deca sorry people.

I was going to use hCG to combat testicular astrophy at a dose of 250iu e/d for 3 weeks and was going to do nolvadex for 3 weeks at a dose of 40mg e/d for 10 days and 20mg e/d for 11 days.

why shouldnt i run a 15 week course because i just thought it would work out much betr seen as test enanthate has a much longer ester atached to it.

You are using some outdated concepts. Do as Bonez recommended and read the stickies, You’ll notice a lot of tweaks have been made to the old lore.

Is this your first cycle? If not, what cycles have you run in the past?

Test E: I would probably go with max 10 weeks test E frontloaded to get you up to peak potency quicker.

Deca: 8 weeks of Deca also frontloaded.

Dbol: Works well with these compounds and could be a good kick start for 4 weeks at the beginning of your cycle at 3x 10mg/d.

AI: You will definitely need a good AI like Adex or Letro at a dose of 0.5mg/d when dbol is in the picture and 0.25mg/d when not (for Adex - not sure for Letro). Adjust AI according to how you respond.

HCG: Use during cycle and not post cycle. Dose at 250iu EOD starting in week 4.

PCT: Maybe standard Nolva SERM PCT will suffice (especially if HCG is used during cycle) or test stasis/taper.

Short potent cycle tend to produce better results and are much easier to recover from especially with tricky compounds like deca.

[quote]robartdewi wrote:
ok here goes. I am 23 I am 175 pounds and 5ft 8. I have been training seriously for 3 years mostly with strong man and trying not to put to much mass on just add as much strength as possible I am now benching around 300lbs on a good day

but now I want to try my hand at bodybuilding:).I am going to do a 15 week cycle of test enanthate and deca nd heres how the cycle goes:-

week 1-5 600mg test enanthate
week 6-10 800mg test enanthate
week 11-15 600mg test enanthate
week 1-15 300mg deca

my pct consists of only nolvadex up to now but I will add hcg if some one can please help me with the dosage and length of pct with clomid.

so my question is what do all the gear gurus on the page thing of this cycle and how can I improve it.

Thanks every one looking forward to hearing your comments:D[/quote]

Ok ive been on here for about a year now, just joined and dont really post a whole lot but i can say that i have been sittin here reading, re-reading, and then reading it again and its shit like this that makes me sit here and smile, i dont know how many times ppl have to tell u to do some research before you post cycles… im not even using gear but have been reading for months on end now.

If you want anyone at all to take you seriously read these damn stickys, and if you have any questions they have already been answered 12 times on here… if this is your idea of a “cycle” theres no way in hell you have even spent a long weekend of doing research… come on man, quit with giving the newbies a bad name and learn a lil bit…

ok how would all of u make a cycle of 20ml of test 400mg/ml and 10ml of deca 300mg/ml and i can get as much pct needed. and i could prbly get more deca nd test if needed 2

READ THE STICKIES-excerpt from Furious George

Welcome Newbie,

First off please don’t email me asking for juice connections, I don’t have any to give out. I am happy to help people with cycle plans but won’t hook you up with a connection. I am not a medical professional, just a dude that knows a lot about juice so take my advice as just that.

So on to the guide…

you wanna learn about juice eh. Well the purpose of this thread is twofold:

  1. There are way too many “this is my first cycle, does this look ok” threads junking up the steroid page and they all get the same response so I am going to try to save everyone some time. Read it. Re-read it until you understand it so you don’t waste people’s time with questions that have been asked a thousand times.

  2. I would like to provide everyone that is trying to learn with a very quick and easy guide to understand how to put together a proper cycle that will match their goals. This is really the basis of what you need to know. My reasons are kinda selfish for this - I would like androgens to be legal for use (over the counter) in my country one day before I die; for this to happen we are gonna need to educate people so they stop fucking up and giving gear a bad name.

PART I - YOUR FIRST CYCLE

There seems to be two schools of thought on first cycles:

One camp says juice hard your first cycle (about 1-1.5g/week), primarily test (500-1000mg/w) and then a secondary compound and orals to make up the rest because you will make you best gains on your first so you might as well max it out. My issue with this approach is there is a very high potential for things to go wrong so you need to be really well prepared, well educated about dealing with sides, and you need to trust your ancilliary source (to mitigate side effects).

The other camp says use a moderate amount of test only *500-600mg/w) and use more test/different compounds on successive cycles to continue making gains. Save the Deca, Tren, Masteron, EQ, Winny, HGH, IGF-1, etc, etc that you have heard about to get more out of future cycles…chances are this isn’t going to be the only cycle you run so add them into future cycles one at a time so you know what works best for you and you continue to see big gains in future cycles. They don’t really work better than test, they just work different so you might as well start with just test to see how your body reacts to it…I will go over all the other compounds in the later sections so just forget about them until you understand this one.

I am not sure anymore which camp I am in…I think the more conservative one just because it is an easier learning process and a bit safer but that is not to say it will produce better gains. That would require a lot more research of both protocols head to head.

This is an ideal first cycle for everyone or at least a base to build on:

(NOTE - W X-Y means start of week X to end of week Y)

Cycle Plan
W 1-10 Test Enth 250mg E3D
W 1-12 Adex 0.25mg EOD (reduce to 0.125mg EOD in last week)

This would be an example of a camp number 2 keep it simple cycle. You don’t really need to get more complicated than this but if you want to below are some typical inclusions for a first cycle…

Wk1-8 500mg Test Enanthate (250mg 2x/wk)
Wk1-6 300mg Nandrolone Deca (150mg 2x/wk)

Frontload the dosages of both drugs so the first injection of test would be 650mg, and the first injection of Deca would be 500mg, with the second injection of the week being the 250mg and 150mg respectively.

This will ensure you attain the peak drug levels from day one, rather than needing to wait for levels to build allowing a much shorter cycle length but as good results.

You could do a 10 week cycle with 8 weeks of deca, to get even more but the suppression would be longer making recovery harder.

You would use Letrozole preferably during the whole cycle, but arimidex if you like. Letrozole may help with the progesterone agonising effects of deca.

Your PCT for the 8 week cycle could well be a nolvadex 40/40/20/20 starting 2 weeks after the last Test injection to allow exogenous hormone levels to drop sufficiently so they are no longer suppressive.
This would do the job - and has done so for me many times.

This would be an excellent cycle giving results within a couple of weeks that you notice in the mirror.
As for strength, while Deca isnt great, the synergy of deca and test for size is virtually unbeatable IMO.

If HCG is used, just 150iu EOD or 250iu 3x/wk is fine from week 1 (due to the suppression of deca on the HPTA being immediate) to the end of the AAS cycle - not into PCT.

This is what i would do - and the dosages are fine for many many cycles, not just one or two.
The addition of an oral would be nice - dianabol or anadrol/winny being great for strength which will help the muscle building process.
The synergy of deca and dbol is renound too…

Brook

ok so i should drop the deca altogether. my test is test 400mg/ml how shld i dose that then would 2ml a week be to much and how would i frontload that.

Op, are you responding to soontobeIFBB or Brook? Put a little effort in what you write…

sorry im respondind to brook. i have 20ml of black widow test 400mg/ml is 1 ml of that 2 times a week to much to cycle.

Why are you responding to me about dropping the Nandrolone, when IFBB suggested dropping the deca and i suggested keeping it?

As for the last question, if this is your first cycle then i think 800mg of test is too much to begin with.

People get great results from 250-350mg Test and 200-250mg Deca as a first cycle in most cases - and with your stats i doubt you’d be very much different.

Brook

PLUS: I fully explained the frontload for the cycle i suggested - all the info i am giving to this thread is in my first post.

Best.

I was just confused as to when and why you decided against deca?

As for your 400mg/ml test, is it a blend or one ester? If one ester which one?

In any case, if you were planning on using 800mg of test e; then this is the same amount of test, just with no deca.

I would go with a nice smooth test enanthate at 250mg/ml. 400mg/ml is most often painful to inject or after injections.

Blends are not optimal in that the different esters kick in at different times and they leave your system at different times meaning more lost time before embarking on PCT.

its a blend of test enanthate 200mg and test cyp 200mg and iv read in loads of places that the esters half lifes are almost identicle. im thinking of taking tren bomb to kick start the cycle also because iv got some left over from a past cycle and i has brilliant results from a 2 week cycle

400mg/ml is still highly concentrated and most likely painful.

but what if i do 2 1ml shots 2wice a week that will save me jabing 800mg all in 1

Yes. If you go with the 400mg/ml test blend; definitely do 400mg 2x/w to maintain even blood level and avoid hormonal fluctuations. You could even do 230mg EOD. That still ends up being 800mg/w. 230mg = 0.575 ml.

what is the benefit of injecting eod apposed to 2wice a week i no it keeps blood levels more stable but what is the actual benafit. i would also like to ask what you think about my training i train 5 days a week

monday:- chest,back concentrate on chest
tuesday:- legs,arms concentrate on legs
wensday:-chest,back concentrate on back
thursday:-legs,arms concentrate on arms
friday:-chest,back concentrate on chest

I love working my chest im now pushing 300lbs and hoping to push 330lbs by end of cycle which i think is doable.

oh and are internet nolvadex reliable i havnt got any yet because i cant find a site i trust any help would be appriciated :wink: (not asking for a source mods but if some one happens to pm me id be very greatfull)

The more frequent the injects, the more steady the blood level. 2x/w is fine however. EOD is just even more stable. You may not notice the difference.

Training: Glad your bench is going well. I’ll leave it for someone else to analyze.

Nolva: Do a search for research chemicals and Nolvadex.