12 Year Old Athlete and Surge?

Admittedly, my nutrition knowledge is limited to gaining and losing weight and could be better than what it is.

My son is playing hockey this year and is training in some way, shape of form every day. It’s difficult to explain how hard he goes at it but he has a respect for training and physical conditioning that I have seen in few adults.

My question is this: is there any reason why he could not use my Surge during and post game?

Its sugar and whey with some vitamins and amminos in there somewhere.

Unless your worried about sucralose(and I wouldn’t be), go for it.

Yeah, the sucralose was my concern, not the other ingredients.

The main reason I was curious is that my blood sugar can be a little off and I have to be careful myself. If I don’t have my post w/o meal fast enough after using Surge, I get sick as a dog. Just wondering if that should be an issue for a little person. Well, not so little, he’s 5’2" and 115 pounds and as solid as a kid can be.

So, yes, mostly a blood sugar concern. I suppose I can let him try it and see what happens. I’m sure he’ll want my chocolate one though.

Thank you kindly, sir.

It isn’t a studied matter but as personal opinion I’d rather see him use a FINiBAR pregame and afterward have carbs from food sources such as sweet potatoes or rice or whatever he likes that is clean food with a protein shake if desired, or let him have one of the nutritionally-cleaner types of pizza.

My reason for saying this is that we know that the physically matured weight trainer does fine with the large spike of glucose and resulting high insulin release post workout from Surge, as well as preworkout.

But we don’t know that a 12 year old is really best served with this.

Yes, American kids do give themselves huge sugar spikes all the time, but it can’t be said that it’s clear that it’s good for their long-term health that they do so.

My perspective is one of some substantial degree of philosophical bias in this area: I’m just always dubious of assuming kids and teenagers are necessarily safe or well-served by dissimilar-to-nature dietary or supplement manipulations or pharmaceuticals simply because adults are shown to be. There are cases where it’s not so, so erring on the side of caution seems wise.

Well, thank you Mr Roberts for your personal opinion. I had been wanting to send you a PM asking you about it but didn’t want to be a nuisance so I had my fingers crossed you’d end up seeing this.

The FINiBAR I’d love to let him try, unfortunately it would not be a cost-effective solution for me (living in Canada).

I suppose we’ll just keep doing what we’re doing then and save the Surge for when he is in the NHL.

Thank you once again.

Sure thing, glad to help!

Then a light meal some time beforehand should be fine. How soon beforehand will depend on individually how well he does playing or training with the meal in his stomach. It’s quite possible he could have a light nutritious meal or shake immediately beforehand, though some will do better with a time gap.

[quote]MsM wrote:
My question is this: is there any reason why he could not use my Surge during and post game? [/quote]

Just to throw another opinion or two into the mix, I think this is a case where the old “chocolate fat-free milk”-trick would be sufficient, just to get the kiddo some calories, protein, and basic sugars PWO.

He could probably get away with a half-serving of Surge, but since you already know that it effects you in a certain way, there’s a chance it’ll be the same with him, and that could, at the very least, interfere with several training sessions (getting sick and possibly discouraged).

You also might try asking Christian Thibaudeau in his Locker Room, as I know he has a lot of experience with hockey players of all levels.
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_author/thibs_qa?pageNo=133#bottom

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
MsM wrote:
My question is this: is there any reason why he could not use my Surge during and post game?

Just to throw another opinion or two into the mix, I think this is a case where the old “chocolate fat-free milk”-trick would be sufficient, just to get the kiddo some calories, protein, and basic sugars PWO.

He could probably get away with a half-serving of Surge, but since you already know that it effects you in a certain way, there’s a chance it’ll be the same with him, and that could, at the very least, interfere with several training sessions (getting sick and possibly discouraged).

You also might try asking Christian Thibaudeau in his Locker Room, as I know he has a lot of experience with hockey players of all levels.
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_author/thibs_qa?pageNo=133#bottom [/quote]

Thats a very good idea.

I really like the fat free chocolate milk idea.

Insulin spike, whey and caesin.

Its cheap and healthy and “normal food”

stay away from sucralose if you can. why go there unless you have too. many supps are now sweetening with stevia as it has no effect on blood sugar. im not saying sucralose is bad, but might as well stay as natural and as first generation as possible…just my outlook

sucralose: www.karlloren.com/Diabetes/p40e.htm

stevia: www.quick-weightloss-solutions.com/dangers-of-stevia.html

[quote]slimthugger wrote:
stay away from sucralose if you can. why go there unless you have too. many supps are now sweetening with stevia as it has no effect on blood sugar. im not saying sucralose is bad, but might as well stay as natural and as first generation as possible…just my outlook

sucralose: www.karlloren.com/Diabetes/p40e.htm

stevia: www.quick-weightloss-solutions.com/dangers-of-stevia.html

[/quote]

Or read Cy’s “The Truth about Sucralose” and avoid getting fooled by people misinterpreting research data.

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_consumer/the_truth_about_sucralose .

[quote]HK24719 wrote:
slimthugger wrote:
stay away from sucralose if you can. why go there unless you have too. many supps are now sweetening with stevia as it has no effect on blood sugar. im not saying sucralose is bad, but might as well stay as natural and as first generation as possible…just my outlook

sucralose: www.karlloren.com/Diabetes/p40e.htm

stevia: www.quick-weightloss-solutions.com/dangers-of-stevia.html

Or read Cy’s “The Truth about Sucralose” and avoid getting fooled by people misinterpreting research data.

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_consumer/the_truth_about_sucralose .[/quote]

you may want to reread my above post…

Given a choice between equal amounts of glucose delivered from Surge or sucrose from chocolate milk for a 12 year old (or anyone) I’d go with the Surge.

Once adding all that sugar, that sort of milk becomes no longer what I would call healthy food.

Assuming the typical sort of chocolate milk of which a very high percentage of calories is from sugar is what is meant.

[quote]slimthugger wrote:
stay away from sucralose if you can. why go there unless you have too. many supps are now sweetening with stevia as it has no effect on blood sugar. im not saying sucralose is bad, but might as well stay as natural and as first generation as possible…just my outlook

sucralose: www.karlloren.com/Diabetes/p40e.htm

stevia: www.quick-weightloss-solutions.com/dangers-of-stevia.html

[/quote]

Your sucralose article bases it’s claims on studies done on diabetics and starved rats. That’s hardly applicable to active individuals.

It also claims that there are only 19 studies done. Just a simple pubmed search turns up over 100 studies done.

Dr. Mercola isn’t a good source if you’re trying to build a credible argument.

[quote]Brant_Drake wrote:
slimthugger wrote:
stay away from sucralose if you can. why go there unless you have too. many supps are now sweetening with stevia as it has no effect on blood sugar. im not saying sucralose is bad, but might as well stay as natural and as first generation as possible…just my outlook

sucralose: www.karlloren.com/Diabetes/p40e.htm

stevia: www.quick-weightloss-solutions.com/dangers-of-stevia.html

Your sucralose article bases it’s claims on studies done on diabetics and starved rats. That’s hardly applicable to active individuals.

It also claims that there are only 19 studies done. Just a simple pubmed search turns up over 100 studies done.

Dr. Mercola isn’t a good source if you’re trying to build a credible argument.[/quote]

as i sid resd the post…i wasn’t stating an argument at all…that was the point. if you like the stuff- drink up. i just choose to limit my intake.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
MsM wrote:
My question is this: is there any reason why he could not use my Surge during and post game?

Just to throw another opinion or two into the mix, I think this is a case where the old “chocolate fat-free milk”-trick would be sufficient, just to get the kiddo some calories, protein, and basic sugars PWO.

He could probably get away with a half-serving of Surge, but since you already know that it effects you in a certain way, there’s a chance it’ll be the same with him, and that could, at the very least, interfere with several training sessions (getting sick and possibly discouraged).

You also might try asking Christian Thibaudeau in his Locker Room, as I know he has a lot of experience with hockey players of all levels.
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_author/thibs_qa?pageNo=133#bottom [/quote]

Many thanks for pointing that out, Chris. I didn’t even think of asking him.

Chocolate milk is what I had been him, albeit not fat-free, so far. He really does need something between his game and when he gets to eat. This honestly is new territory for me so it’s a little confusing. I didn’t play team sports myself (only things like track and field, martial arts, lifting) but the energy expended seems to be so much more for these kids and I’m concerned about proper nutrition for him since he’s a picky eater to begin with.

So very many responses here though. Thank you everyone!

[quote]MsM wrote:
Chris Colucci wrote:
MsM wrote:
My question is this: is there any reason why he could not use my Surge during and post game?

Just to throw another opinion or two into the mix, I think this is a case where the old “chocolate fat-free milk”-trick would be sufficient, just to get the kiddo some calories, protein, and basic sugars PWO.

He could probably get away with a half-serving of Surge, but since you already know that it effects you in a certain way, there’s a chance it’ll be the same with him, and that could, at the very least, interfere with several training sessions (getting sick and possibly discouraged).

You also might try asking Christian Thibaudeau in his Locker Room, as I know he has a lot of experience with hockey players of all levels.
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_author/thibs_qa?pageNo=133#bottom

Many thanks for pointing that out, Chris. I didn’t even think of asking him.

Chocolate milk is what I had been him, albeit not fat-free, so far. He really does need something between his game and when he gets to eat. This honestly is new territory for me so it’s a little confusing. I didn’t play team sports myself (only things like track and field, martial arts, lifting) but the energy expended seems to be so much more for these kids and I’m concerned about proper nutrition for him since he’s a picky eater to begin with.

So very many responses here though. Thank you everyone! [/quote]

Chocolate milk would be a better choice from both a health and recovery standpoint, granted he has no issues with lactose intolerance. And, it doesn’t have to be fat-free. As a matter of fact, there’s evidence pointing to full-fat milk postworkout having greater effects on protein synthesis.

PS - I’m a father of two boys, and sports nutrition is my full-time profession. I have no vested interest in any commercial entity. Basically, you can trust what I say as reliable and based in ample scientific evidence.

Man he is 12 and not on Alpha Male yet? He’s gonna be behind the curve and never get his abs.

I drank chocolate milk after basketball like it was my job, could always notice the times I had it and and times I didn’t. Hockey is a much more physical sport and uses much more energy, in which case I would use full-fat milk in my opinion. Kids that are active never seem to get enough calories anyway.

[quote]Alan Aragon wrote:
MsM wrote:
Chris Colucci wrote:
MsM wrote:
My question is this: is there any reason why he could not use my Surge during and post game?

Just to throw another opinion or two into the mix, I think this is a case where the old “chocolate fat-free milk”-trick would be sufficient, just to get the kiddo some calories, protein, and basic sugars PWO.

He could probably get away with a half-serving of Surge, but since you already know that it effects you in a certain way, there’s a chance it’ll be the same with him, and that could, at the very least, interfere with several training sessions (getting sick and possibly discouraged).

You also might try asking Christian Thibaudeau in his Locker Room, as I know he has a lot of experience with hockey players of all levels.
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_author/thibs_qa?pageNo=133#bottom

Many thanks for pointing that out, Chris. I didn’t even think of asking him.

Chocolate milk is what I had been him, albeit not fat-free, so far. He really does need something between his game and when he gets to eat. This honestly is new territory for me so it’s a little confusing. I didn’t play team sports myself (only things like track and field, martial arts, lifting) but the energy expended seems to be so much more for these kids and I’m concerned about proper nutrition for him since he’s a picky eater to begin with.

So very many responses here though. Thank you everyone!

Chocolate milk would be a better choice from both a health and recovery standpoint, granted he has no issues with lactose intolerance. And, it doesn’t have to be fat-free. As a matter of fact, there’s evidence pointing to full-fat milk postworkout having greater effects on protein synthesis.

PS - I’m a father of two boys, and sports nutrition is my full-time profession. I have no vested interest in any commercial entity. Basically, you can trust what I say as reliable and based in ample scientific evidence.

[/quote]

As far as I’m aware, there are no lactose intolerance issues that have presented themselves.

That’s great that you’re a sports nutritionist. I’m sure I’ll be picking your brain from time to time if you don’t mind. lol

In all fairness, Bill Roberts did give what I thought to be a very unbiased answer to my question and opted against children using Surge. I do appreciate your concern for vested interests though and always question them myself. Mr Roberts is still da bomb though.

[quote]Higgins wrote:
Man he is 12 and not on Alpha Male yet? He’s gonna be behind the curve and never get his abs.

I drank chocolate milk after basketball like it was my job, could always notice the times I had it and and times I didn’t. Hockey is a much more physical sport and uses much more energy, in which case I would use full-fat milk in my opinion. Kids that are active never seem to get enough calories anyway.

[/quote]

lol Uhhhh no.

Thankfully, he is genetically gifted (even has delts and lats already), he is concerned with performance and not abs.

I fully share your concern with the calories issue and getting enough quality food at the right times is what my goal is. The time that is was really a worry of mine was when soccer and hockey season overlapped for about 4 weeks.

Good sense of humor on you, there;)

[quote]MsM wrote:
Alan Aragon wrote:
MsM wrote:
Chris Colucci wrote:
MsM wrote:
My question is this: is there any reason why he could not use my Surge during and post game?

Just to throw another opinion or two into the mix, I think this is a case where the old “chocolate fat-free milk”-trick would be sufficient, just to get the kiddo some calories, protein, and basic sugars PWO.

He could probably get away with a half-serving of Surge, but since you already know that it effects you in a certain way, there’s a chance it’ll be the same with him, and that could, at the very least, interfere with several training sessions (getting sick and possibly discouraged).

You also might try asking Christian Thibaudeau in his Locker Room, as I know he has a lot of experience with hockey players of all levels.
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_author/thibs_qa?pageNo=133#bottom

Many thanks for pointing that out, Chris. I didn’t even think of asking him.

Chocolate milk is what I had been him, albeit not fat-free, so far. He really does need something between his game and when he gets to eat. This honestly is new territory for me so it’s a little confusing. I didn’t play team sports myself (only things like track and field, martial arts, lifting) but the energy expended seems to be so much more for these kids and I’m concerned about proper nutrition for him since he’s a picky eater to begin with.

So very many responses here though. Thank you everyone!

Chocolate milk would be a better choice from both a health and recovery standpoint, granted he has no issues with lactose intolerance. And, it doesn’t have to be fat-free. As a matter of fact, there’s evidence pointing to full-fat milk postworkout having greater effects on protein synthesis.

PS - I’m a father of two boys, and sports nutrition is my full-time profession. I have no vested interest in any commercial entity. Basically, you can trust what I say as reliable and based in ample scientific evidence.

As far as I’m aware, there are no lactose intolerance issues that have presented themselves.

That’s great that you’re a sports nutritionist. I’m sure I’ll be picking your brain from time to time if you don’t mind. lol

In all fairness, Bill Roberts did give what I thought to be a very unbiased answer to my question and opted against children using Surge. I do appreciate your concern for vested interests though and always question them myself. Mr Roberts is still da bomb though.[/quote]

Yeah, I’m a big Mr. Rogers fan myself, RIP… :slight_smile:

I think you’ve confirmed your own intuitions here, no? There is such a tremendous current of misinformation that pervades this industry, and unfortunately the lay public is a group of sitting ducks in the midst. And yeah, feel free to pick my brain, but note that I’m only here occasionally.