[quote]ConorM wrote:
Your BP numbers are extremely low. Why not just do a westside type approach and concentrate most on getting your 1rm up? Then do some accessory work in the 8-12 rep range. I think this might give you a better 10rm in 8 weeks.[/quote]
I agree that his numbers are low, but why train for a 10RM contest the same exact way you train for a 1RM contest? Obviously maximal strength is a big component, but equally important is muscular endurance (which is why people have a big issue with the combine 225 rep test).
Plus, since he is a beginner, his strength threshold is lower than an advanced lifter. That is, someone who can max at 400 isn’t going to get nearly as much out of benching 320 (80%) as a guy that benches 200 will get out of benching 160.
I dont necisarily think iso’s are good for beginners because of form. One reason iso’s might be good for beginners is that intramuscular tension they will get which will help them recruit more muscle fibers making them more neural efficiency, and the better your neural efficiency the stronger you are. But i think this can be much better developed through max effort 1-3RM lifts because then you are also moving the barbell which will better your form more than not moving one.
And about what you said not training for a 10RM competition the same way you would a 1RM competition. Your absolute strength is the keey to all other strengths. If your absolute strength goes up, so will your speed-strength, strength-speed, and repeated effort strength. Thats one reason i think he should train with heavy weights also.
I’m not saying its wrong to use isometrics, that can work well, but if you were going to use them, since they really aren’t all that taxing, i would use them after a max effort or dynamic effort lift.
Definitly some good points made there. You are certainly right about maximal strength being the foundation for all other strength and you certainly will find no argument from me about that. In the advice I gave him, I definitly prescribed absolute strength work (in the form of heavy eccentric and 3-rep paused bench in the first stage and then with the 5RM close-grip in the second). I guess I just feel like (and this is a lot based on personal experience) 3-5RM’s do a lot more for the novice lifter than a 1RM.
I’ve seen better strength increases for myself when I work in the 3-5 range then going for heavy singles- it could be because I miss too many lifts when going for the 1RM. Certainly there is more than 1 way to skin a cat and the strategy of backing up a maximal lift with higher-rep assistance work has obviously been proven to work as well.
Yeah you are right, i guess i just personally dont care to much for isometrics, even though they can work. Thats just the difference in the way we would go about it, doesn’t make one way better.
Haha, i like PriceOnTheLine’s idea. I’d like to see somebody in a double ply shirt that fits right, that can only bench 155x10 raw, get anything even halfway down to their chest haha.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Plus, since he is a beginner, his strength threshold is lower than an advanced lifter. That is, someone who can max at 400 isn’t going to get nearly as much out of benching 320 (80%) as a guy that benches 200 will get out of benching 160.[/quote]
Shouldn’t this be more reason for him to also focus on maximal strength development? Especially if he has been training in the higher rep bracket for the past while for this comp. he would probably recieve some quicker neural adaptations/improvements training with heavier weight learning how to activate more M.U.s into the lift. This of course would translate into a greater performance in his 10 rep max.
just thought I’d let you guys know I’m still following this thread, although I haven’t much to say since I’m clearly out of my league. I haven’t decided what to change and how yet, and I’m not sure I will change anything for the next two weeks a.) since I’m still seeing gains and b.) cause I have a set of finals coming up in 2 weeks so I don’t have much time to think about it. But I’ll be sure to let you know what happens.
The oscillating bench press, does look like fun, I must say.
Oh, and by the way I got 168 lbs for 8 reps on Friday. [does this still qualify as “extremely low?” Probably. sigh]
Thanks a lot guys, I really appreciate it and am learning a lot,
[quote]Tags wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
Plus, since he is a beginner, his strength threshold is lower than an advanced lifter. That is, someone who can max at 400 isn’t going to get nearly as much out of benching 320 (80%) as a guy that benches 200 will get out of benching 160.
Shouldn’t this be more reason for him to also focus on maximal strength development? Especially if he has been training in the higher rep bracket for the past while for this comp. he would probably recieve some quicker neural adaptations/improvements training with heavier weight learning how to activate more M.U.s into the lift. This of course would translate into a greater performance in his 10 rep max.
Pat Battaglia
[/quote]
Pat,
I think you are misunderstanding my argument. Someone who isn’t very strong will generally have a lower strength threshold than someone who is strong. Of course I agree that he needs to develop maximal strength. However, if he is working on 1RM’s, he will not see a significantly greater gain in strength than if he works with 5RM’s. That’s what I was saying before. An experienced powerlifter is going to need to work with 90%+ of his max or more to further develop his strength. A true beginner can work with 70%+ and gain strength. Obviously this guy is more than a true beginner, but he is still at the novice level where working with a 5RM-type load is going to develop strength and endurance at the same time.
Haha dude, whatever you lift, all that matter is that you are making progress.
I’m more impressed with a guy that moved his bench from 100 pounds to 200 pounds than a guy who started benching 300 pounds the first time he picked up a weight and is now benching 305.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Tags wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
Plus, since he is a beginner, his strength threshold is lower than an advanced lifter. That is, someone who can max at 400 isn’t going to get nearly as much out of benching 320 (80%) as a guy that benches 200 will get out of benching 160.
Shouldn’t this be more reason for him to also focus on maximal strength development? Especially if he has been training in the higher rep bracket for the past while for this comp. he would probably recieve some quicker neural adaptations/improvements training with heavier weight learning how to activate more M.U.s into the lift. This of course would translate into a greater performance in his 10 rep max.
Pat Battaglia
Pat,
I think you are misunderstanding my argument. Someone who isn’t very strong will generally have a lower strength threshold than someone who is strong. Of course I agree that he needs to develop maximal strength. However, if he is working on 1RM’s, he will not see a significantly greater gain in strength than if he works with 5RM’s. That’s what I was saying before. An experienced powerlifter is going to need to work with 90%+ of his max or more to further develop his strength. A true beginner can work with 70%+ and gain strength. Obviously this guy is more than a true beginner, but he is still at the novice level where working with a 5RM-type load is going to develop strength and endurance at the same time.[/quote]
I definately agree with you on this one as the beginner will need more reps to stimulate the same strength gains than will an advanced trainee. But i think the best way to go about this is, working up to a 1RM, then going down and hitting a 5RM. This way you get the best of both worlds.
I’ve never really thought about adding an extra set like that- I could definitly see that working very well. I think I will have to steal that for my own training as I want to start working in 1RMs but still want to get some more volume in.