High dosages almost Always fall.
I’m awed by what you’ve achieved( along with hard work and effort) using what I would describe as microdosing. After reading this thread, I injected 5 mg, IM, and will do so everyday. Continued success.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong- but E2 Lags behind. Its out of phase with test. The test converts to E2 and that takes a bit of time. In that time Test levels are decreasing. So peak E2 is not at peak Test.
I’ve seen some better charts on it before but this is the only one I could find. It does lag behind some but not hugely… judging by this it almost looks like it just hangs at higher levels for a bit longer than T does
The image isn’t showing up for me. Can everyone else see it?
Edit: I can see the image now.
I’m the same. And unlike nebulous concepts like “brain fog” libido is something that one knows for sure he either has or doesn’t have. What was your natural level when you were first put on TRT?
Good morning, @crashnet. My answer is three parts. When I was prescribed T in 2013, my TT was 360. This was done at a large urology group, in house, and they were only equipped to check total. Eight years earlier, when I began having erectile problems, the endo at our HMO ordered total and free; 324 and 45. Now, for context, in 2012, when I was eating loads of salmon, my TT came in at 688 and free at 103. Erections were still rare and I came to learn the importance of free T. Having experienced disappointment on TRT, as have many other men, I want to believe that the ‘less is more’ protocol, for some of us, might prove to be the game changer. You and @equel are certainly living proof. Without erections and good sexual function, life is flat and grey.
On 50 mg, weekly, what’s your free T? My last protocol, which I was on for 6 months, before going off T in March, was 10 mg, IM, daily, which gave me TT of 903, free of 220 and E2 of 42. I won’t use an AI and my urologist doesn’t encourage using them. Libido was improved but still had poor erectile function. Perhaps, for me, that total was too high. Read posts by Emeric on a bodybuilding site. Like @euqel, you can’t argue with positive results. Started 5 mg, IM, daily, on Saturday. Also taking 1 grain(60mg) of NDT 3xdaily + additional 25 mcg of T3. Thanks for your thoughts and observations.
Do you have the lab range for this 268 FT?
Trouble with that graph its a 14 day dosing schedule.
If you look peak E2 is actually a good couple of days after peak T. Those intervals on the x axis are 3.5 day chunks.
And whats worse, as you say it lingers a bit longer so by day 7 you’ve got “in range” T and superphysiological E2.
My error on the free T. I was thinking of some other labs. On the results I posted, the free T was 22.0 pg/mL (6.6 - 18.1) LabCorp .
Maybe if you manage to keep FT max 18 would make a difference for the better, and maybe TRT that keeps you all in range has by far less side effects especially in the long run, just my point of view
Maybe. My urologist has 30 years experience and I’m still a challenge to him. When I read the thread of 10 mg a day and the experiences of @crashnet and @equel, I decided to go ultra low dose @5 mg daily. The one thing I’ve learned, both from TRT and working with psychiatrists to manage my untreatable bipolar illness, is that more isn’t necessarily better. Medicine seems to be skewed toward that view and if nothing else, I bring a contrarian point of view to my doctors. They all know, with me, that we always need to think outside the box.
Posting to just add another for low dose TRT. I started about 6 years ago with Dr. doing monthly
injections of 300mg Test Cyp. After a couple of months talked him into me injecting at home at 130mg per week. Hematacrit, blood pressure and E2 go through the roof. End up on meds to control BP and E2 and donating blood as often as I can. I started experimenting with injecting 2 X per week, EOD, etc, but nothing changed. About 2 years ago read a thread here were the member was injecting 7mg per day. For about a year I experimented with daily injections starting at 5mg IM. I have been at 10mg IM per day for just over a year and no more meds for blood pressure, E2 and hematacritis in normal range a couldn’t be happier. I am 58 years old and have not felt this good since my 30’s.
I agree with this statement from crashnet. Funny enough though, this is what my Dr. always pushed for but my perception of what the “TRT Community” was saying was to not listen to him. I will be the first to admit that my perception could have been wrong.
Again. No one should be starting at 150 a week. In short order the ones pushing that will change their stance as they did on other things
100 at most a week. Not the first time I read guys doing great at 80 a week.
Personally I’m at 120 a week divided into 2. I am 44. I’m sure in my 50s and 60s as my body is aging and it does age, I will be lowering my dose.
I did try as low as 90. But personally I feel better at 120 Is it possible if I went down to 70 or 80 that would be my spot I don’t know. But looking at my labs my numbers would be way low.
And another thing I notice is that what my dosage gets me to in terms of numbers changes. So if 100 mg got me to a trough of let’s say 600 testosterone 2 years later the same 100 could get me a 400. That’s what I’ve seen. and there could be many different reasons why my testosterone numbers would change. Perhaps medication additions or changes or maybe even supplements. Who knows.
That’s fantastic. This thread is fascinating! Now, I don’t know if low dose will bring back my libido and erections but my TRT history, as you’ve read, has been between 100 and 200 mg, on various dosing schedules, with and without an AI. Conventional dosing didn’t help. Nothing to lose and maybe in a few weeks or months, I’ll be surprised, as will my wife.
12/6: Pondering this thread this morning; 100 mg-30 mg for the ester = 70 mg per week, averaging 10 mg per day. I know the computation is correct but if I’m making an incorrect presumption please correct me.
Every comment I’ve seen from you (not just here) is rude, passive aggressive and wrongfully assumes authority. A lot of your advice is useful (some not), however, people would be more receptive if you actually behaved like your hormones are optimal.
This is a great chart. However one also reads that 90% of the injection is urinated out, so what is actually left to “do work” in the body?
@highpull figured that out one time I believe based on the concentration of T and the volume of blood in a person. It’s a very small amount from what I recall
Corrected for testosterone amount in the ester, of course you can. A human doesn’t eliminate free endogenous testosterone any different than they would eliminate free exogenously introduced testosterone.
Ask yourself, what is being referred to here? Danny gets 1000 ng/dl where on 250 mg/week of test ester? Peak/trough?
The answer would be trough. What would Danny’s peak TT and mean TT if he is getting a trough of 1000 ng/dl? Assume E7D or E3.5D injection.
Correct. And that’s why there’s no “unassisted” man out there that would have Danny’s PK profile (rough estimate shown below):
What happens to serum TT level with almost all guys when they use weekly equivalent of 250 mg/week of testosterone ester?
It’s not a mystery.