T Nation

10000 KB Swings Article

I read the article and was wondering if these KB Swings are Russian Swings, or the American Swings. If its the Russian Swings, how high do you swing?

Thanks

Russian swings. American Swing is bad for you. Chest level, but I’m sure that as fatigue set in, they weren’t as high. The height is generated by the hip snap, not the shoulders. In an American swing, you are adding your shoulders trying to raise it over your head. The one arm snatch is a better exercise for that

I’m definetly doing the Russian style, just focusing on keeping each rep perfect

I have a few questions/ideas myself, but cannot ask them in the live spill yet…

Assuming nutrition is relatively the same, it appears weight and rep scheme would play a major role in the fat%

Some ideas that might affect numbers:
*Need some more subjects to test BL but using the standard weights instead of the 48KG… 16 women / 24 men? Was it just the weight or was it the BL method that produced different results?
*What was the average duration of a single workout including rest? 90min? Did the duration decrease or increase over the ten days?
*What happens if we use other lifting protocols, say 7 reps in 15 sec / rest 15 sec until all 1000 reps complete?
*What happens if we break it down to 10 minutes every hour? Would the mental and physical effort be easier to handle? Would the body comp results be different?

One idea that I’m toying with is to maybe test:
7 rep cadence, 15 sec work/ 15 sec rest, 9 min sets, every 60 min, 8 times.
anyone else want to test it to compare versus the straight up 20-50 crowd?

Sorry, I forgot to mention another idea…

playing with hard/easy/medium days… eg, 1800 rep day, 400 rep day, 800 rep day.
What would waving to get the 10k reps in 10 days do? And of course #sets/#reps/#sessions schemes then come into play…

Ya know, it was a great article that seems to raise a lot of questions in my mind.

Oh, and someone in the live spill had asked about non KB work that might use this idea. What about burpees?

[quote]Csubi wrote:
I read the article and was wondering if these KB Swings are Russian Swings, or the American Swings. If its the Russian Swings, how high do you swing?

Thanks[/quote]
If you’re really interested in this, as I am (I love the K.B. swing). I would suggest you check out Tracy Reifkind. As, I think she originally pioneered the idea of high rep swings for body recomp. If not, she certainly is a good model of this sort fat loss plan in action. She lost something like 120lbs following a plan similar to the one outlined in the article (obviously over a longer period of time). I got all fired up and bought her and Bud Jeffries books. I’m hoping that they are going to arrive today.

I love kettlebells as much as anybody, but there is no way I would do this. This is a classic quick fix that will end up with nagging injuries. First, your hands and fingers are going to be raw and blistered. Second, unless you have perfect form, you will get injured due to fatigue.

The guys that did this are professional fitness people, not ham and eggers like ourselves. It’s classic overtraining. I’ve done the 5k swing challenge in a month, and that’s over 175 a day which is a lot of volume. If you want a great challenge, try this:

Starting at the beginning of the month, do the same number of getups as each day. So if it’s August 8, do 8 getups each side. Looks simple until you get toward the end of the month. Do 5000 swings for the month. Do 1000 in week 1, 1500 in week 2, 2000 in week 3, 2500 in week 4. You get one amnesty day a week. Use as heavy a kettlebell as you can with good form. You’ll be pleased with the results.

I just think there are so many better workouts than this. Take a 32 kg bell alternate 15-20 two hand swings with 15-20 seconds jumping rope, start at the top of each minute. Work up to 15-20 minutes. If you don’t have one do 5 snathces with a 24 kg bell, with a new set at the top of each minute for 20 minutes. Reduce the rest by 5 seconds each week.

@BCFlynn

I didn’t take the article as a workout. The article is about flirting with over training… The authors were quite clear: this test really sucks! They were also quite clear, make sure you have great technique.

That aside, planning excessive work from time to time with a proper deload period after words can lead to some great gains. Step over the line for too long or too often, then expect to be sidelined. Or just as bad, loose progress.

I personally flirt with the over training line 2-3 times a year. It helps build willpower more than anything else. If I do test the 10k in 10 days, it will only be once a year at most. And no other over training strategies for at least 4 month afterwards. It would also need to be planned to not interfere with any of my hobby sports.

For long term strategies I would just stick with the normal DragonDoor KB protocols. They are safe and I always make forward progress over the whole of the year. But there are times where you need to step outside the box…

I just tried this. Finished Day 10 tonight.

Well, a modified version. 1,000 a day is far too much for me, I know that. I cut it back to 150 per day for 10 days. I played 2 hours of ultimate each of day 2 and 9. While throwing a frisbee isn’t hard, running and sprinting is. I also hadn’t done any swings in at least 7-8 months. Before that, I had done about 20 sets total.

I felt like I had been overtraining… Day 7-9 were absolutely brutal. I was exhausted during the day, I couldn’t run as fast and my body wanted to just stay in bed and sleep it off.

Pulled it off as sets of 6 sets of 25 for days 1-3. Then adjusted to 8 sets of 20 for days 4-8. Day 9 went back to sets of 25. Tonight, on day 10, is I guess when the physiology came together. I ended up pulling out 260 sets over 13 sets of 20 using the ‘Lost in Vegas’ technique. Sure enough, it works.

Hi, First post here…On the 10000 swings is everybody still doing regular workouts throughout or just one or two regular workouts on top within the 10 days?

thanks

I remember reading this article a short time ago, and it’s not a plan of any kind.
He did this experiment to measure the efforts of KB swings, and over a long period of time they can be a great weight loss tool, not “crash-diet” modeled workout.
If you’re going to do something like this, you better have top-notch form and start very light or risk some serious injury.

[quote]davidvilla131 wrote:
Hi, First post here…On the 10000 swings is everybody still doing regular workouts throughout or just one or two regular workouts on top within the 10 days?

thanks[/quote]

David,
If you are using this workout as a test, I would just do the swings. If your using it for fat loss your probably misguided, and might be better served by purchasing either Bud jeffreies’ book “I will be iron” or Tracy Reifkind’s book “swing”.

an example of a week plan in “I will be iron” (following a steady build up of reps over several weeks):
Day 1
Heavy lifting 5x5 Squat, push, pull
Day 2
Heavy interval swing 100-200 reps should take 15min.
Day 3
max swing 500-1000 reps
done mon-wend-fri;tues-thurs-sat etc.
Alot of the articles are meant to be provocative; rather than workouts. A spring board, but whatever.

Just finished my 10 days of 8000 reps. I decided to cut back due to age, conditioning and my shoulder surgery (I let myself go for awhile).

The first 8 days I would come down almost to parallel like I see in videos but after watching Dan John’s demo I now come down to about the 10 or 2 o’clock position. Much better on the lower back when doing high reps. I will still go lower w/ heavier wt and low reps, like doing pull-thrus. The wt started @ 27 on day one. 30 on day 2, 35 on 3, 40 on 4, and 45 on days 5-10, so it was definitively scaled back. I played around w/ diff rep schemes but usually did 20 or 25 swings on the minute every minute, sometimes skipping a minute to rest but never more than 2x a session. So my last session I did 800 swings in 32.5 minutes. My first day took about an hour.

The effects were amazing, RHR is 51. Never been lower than 53. Probably around 58-60 @ the start. Also noticeably leaner in the mirror. I like doing conditioning work but I won’t be maintaining that kind of intensity daily. I also got a headache on 5 of those workouts. Only did 1 other workout (day 3) and it was not fun.

I’m only just coming back after 6 months of medial epicondylitis, and the KB swing and pushups are about the only thing I can do. I’m gonna try around 3-400 a day with 16kg and see what happens, for a couple of weeks

Coupled with trying to kickstart the Anabolic diet, hopefully see some good results

Just so everyone is on the right track. This is good form:

What I don’t understand is that of the people studied, two actually gained muscle and lost fat, but the author got smaller and fatter. That doesn’t really speak highly of his results.

That was addressed in the article. He managed his fatigue to do more swings, making the workouts an aerobic one rather than anaerobic as everyone else did:

…"To do this, they stuck with anaerobic sets and did all 1,000 daily reps in one or two workouts.

"James didn’t see noticeable changes in body composition, although his performance level on swings and ability to buffer lactate improved remarkably.

"A tentative conclusion would be that significant short-term body composition changes depend heavily on producing blood lactate (i.e. doing anaerobic work). This sits well with everything you’ve ever read about interval training, barbell complexes, EPOC, etc.

"James agrees: “As far as I can tell, breathing ladders are simply too efficient for major body comp changes. Dan John wrote it down first ? fat loss is inefficiency.”

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Just so everyone is on the right track. This is good form:

Can we really take anybody serious that has a cat in his video?

I would love to do high volume swings, but incorporated into my 3x/week 5x5 workout. How would one do that? The goal is fat loss and conditioning. Just looking maybe for some sample workouts to do, whether daily or on off training days. I loved the article and would love to try it, but I am definitely nowehre near the skill level or condition the participants are in.

Thanks

hey gnesr

  1. 10 sets of 20-50 reps, with active recovery in between sets. The recovery can be a 100-200M walk or jog. Just remember the purpose is to actively recover between the sets, not more work…

  2. Kenneth Jay put together an interesting program to increase VO2Max. There is a 15/15 sec and a 36/36 sec protocol for you to choose between. Just read through the link…
    http://rifsblog.blogspot.ca/2007/07/original-kenneth-jay-post-on-dragondoor.html

Do one or the other for 2-3 weeks 3 days a week. Then maybe switch to the other or work on a different goal. These do not work well if your weight training is too intense. It’s best to put your strength training in maintenance while doing the above.