T Nation

1000 Reps to Bigger Muscles

hey guys, just started this thread to ask each member of T-Nation a simple question, relating to tempo and volume as a reps-per-muscle-group-a-week standard.

I have seen many people train with methods that go against the mainstream concepts that you see here. They keep it safe, don’t go too heavy, don’t overdo it, don’t use freaky movements, and use textbook technique.

Guys who do 500 pushups a day for 4-5 days a week (typical 2days on-1 day off split)with a speed of execution that has them doing a full rep in a second and a half and get a chest to match any fitness or natural bodybuilding model…

I have seen guys who train each bodypart in a full-body split with a 1010 tempo and a 10-12 sets of 10-12 reps per bodypart, getting those same results…

I have seen guys who do drop sets, rest-pause sets and giant sets like crazy and get big like that too, in no time…

Why do these crazy training systems work? How can you get big without paying attention to tempo, how can you get big by putting two dozen sets of the typical 10-15 reps of work for the week on a single muscle group, without making it a catabolic-inducing workout?

My question is: can anyone give me a workout sample that works with these parameters?

We all see in our gyms guys who do things differently, not necessarily pros or steroid junkies, but guys who might do their sets in the same 8-12 reps range but can use fast tempos that get them to do a full rep in one second or two, or anything in between, and probably hit the body two times a week per body part or muscle group, puting like 20 sets of work on each muscle, and grow.

This isn’t a thread to just get criticisms and dogmatic opinion, this is a challenge for you guys to find this type of oddball workouts in your gym, spread them around to see what happens…the worst that can happen is that you lose some fat and give it a good sweat, for a nice change of pace, as long as you don’t get a workout that can injure you out of its crazy schemes.

1 Like

For every one of those guys, there are 100’s that have been working out for years and look like crap. There are also people who have never lifted a BB or DB in their life who have great bodies.

For every myth bodybuilding wisdom breaks it creates 100 more untill some reserches are made to make it otherwise , stick with what gives you fast results as long as it does that’s all

Ronnie said somewhere he trains 10 minutes a workout once a week with 10 secund rests between sets and steroids genetics or whatever hes the best of em

[quote]louisluthor wrote:
without making it a catabolic-inducing workout?

[/quote]
What up Lou!
We drink lots of red wine.

hey Go Heavy:

Ok, you guys drink a lot of red wine, hhmm…guess I should quit the tequila and start taking up red wine, LOL…

Well, as per other news, I have tried your strategy of drop sets, and so far, it works well…doing between 8-10 reps and then dropping the load by 10-15% and squeezing out another 8-10, and finally strip off another 15-10% to squeeze a final 8-10 reps seems fine for me, I keep the reps fast, but controlled, making each rep last like a second and a half tops, perhaps a little less, but if I am honest, I can’t count a full second on the concentric or the eccentric phase, it would be more like 0.65 to 0,75 seconds on each given phase.

I have seen some really strange ways to exercise.: do the 1-and-a-1/2’s on the dipping bars, do partial reps on the pushups for “constant tension”, do dips with a 15-20 seconds contraction at the top of the dips, for like 2-3 reps per set…and these oddball methods work, but the thing that abffles me is how simpleton routines like doing 500 classic pushups a day, 5 days a week can get you big

[quote]louisluthor wrote:
hey Go Heavy:

Ok, you guys drink a lot of red wine, hhmm…guess I should quit the tequila and start taking up red wine, LOL…

Well, as per other news, I have tried your strategy of drop sets, and so far, it works well…doing between 8-10 reps and then dropping the load by 10-15% and squeezing out another 8-10, and finally strip off another 15-10% to squeeze a final 8-10 reps seems fine for me, I keep the reps fast, but controlled, making each rep last like a second and a half tops, perhaps a little less, but if I am honest, I can’t count a full second on the concentric or the eccentric phase, it would be more like 0.65 to 0,75 seconds on each given phase.

I have seen some really strange ways to exercise.: do the 1-and-a-1/2’s on the dipping bars, do partial reps on the pushups for “constant tension”, do dips with a 15-20 seconds contraction at the top of the dips, for like 2-3 reps per set…and these oddball methods work, but the thing that abffles me is how simpleton routines like doing 500 classic pushups a day, 5 days a week can get you big[/quote]

I’ll give you one answer why you can throw tempo out the window… and counting reps for that matter. It simply takes priority over what you’re trying to do in the first place and that’s “MOVE WEIGHT”, not count. It’s nice to have great form and and know precisely every rep of every set you’ve ever done. But I can tell you this… half the time I have no idea how many reps I just did or even how much weight is on the bar sometimes.

All that shit just takes priority in your nervous system instead of your muscles. Don’t think so much. Your wasting valuable thoughts on numbers when they should be on the vision of the lift or the muscle contracting and expanding. When your concentrating on this kinda stuff… you should not be able to remember how many reps you just did.

[quote]louisluthor wrote:
simpleton routines like doing 500 classic pushups a day, 5 days a week can get you big[/quote]

Easy answer. Thats alot of frequency. You’re bound to change and grow doing that much work. Not only that, if you have a body type that respons well to push ups… by all means do them. I don’t get shit from push ups but maybe a nice pump that goes away after about an hour… no real muscle gain for me. If I could do that many in a week, I would. And I would probably see some decent results. Most people don’t do that many. They’ll do a few and without consistancy(frequency)… so they never really know if that will work for them.

My bodytype responds well to CT’s 5-2-1 superset style with the rest-pauses. Or my drop set method. Or my singles method with rest pauses or re-racks. I need heavy weights.

Everyone is different and responds well to different training genre. For me its its quick workout with barely any rest, very heavy weight, drop sets, supersets, rest-pauses, re-racks, and just a real blitzkrieg style workout in about 30 minutes.

Ok Louis: what you know, right now, is worth shit.

If you are concerned with tempo, let me tell you something: there is a relationship between tension and time under tension. The more Tension, the less Time you can stay under it.

An Olympic lifter has pretty decent muscles, and they normally try to eat just about right to stay within their weight classes…if they actually ate the minimum 0,75 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight, they’ll grow enough to go into bodybuilding events.

The reason why is because they don’t need to spend 45-60 seconds under the bar per set, because their reps provide enough tension to create the necessary microfibrillar damage to promote hypertrophy. Also, this is why the 10 x 3 method can give you as much size as the 3 x 10, even if the reps last less time (less T.U.T. per rep)

My advise however, goes more with Go Heavy Fool’s advice: Pick a load where you can count a MAXIMUM of 1 full second, and that would be at the first reps. Now, go and do as many good reps as you can with it, and just 2 or 3 reps shy of failure, drop the laod, rest 10 seconds ( I don’t usually have spotters because I train very early, so I just rack the load, and spend those 10 seconds stripping the plates, but technically, they are 10 seconds of rest) and hit it again. I normally use 2 weight reductions and try to stay in a 8-15 reps range as well.

You may try doing 500 pushups a week if your body responds well to them, I see guys do 10 x 10 on dips 4-5 days a week and it seems to work well for them, and they do the reps so fast as to take just like 15 seconds, at the most, to do a set of 10 perfect textbook-form reps. And they look good.

Just go the the gym, lift something heavy in the best way you can, don’t count the reps, rack the load without having reached failure, strip some weight off and go at it again, 2 or 3 times more so you feel the msucles working…I work out three times a week and I do this like 3-4 times, it’s all I need now, but you shouldn do s much good hard work as you can per session and only come abck when you are ready to go at it again. You may need a week at first, then train twice a week, then three times and who knows, you might end up training 4-5 times a week.

As long as you put good and hard work into it, you’ll grow

Here is a story i thought I would just add since lots of pushups were mentioned.

When i was younger me and my brother moved to denver with my mom. Being in a new city we didnt have shit to do so basicly played video games and did pushups and situps to pass the time.

I went rep for rep on him and after a couple months he had noticably improved his chest and I had very slightly improved my triceps. he was also the only stand out athlete in the family which gives a hint why he improved vastly more then me. i did however move to Omaha soon after and get the best score in the situp and pushup tests in gym class.

[quote]Vandal__Savage wrote:
Ok Louis: what you know, right now, is worth shit.

If you are concerned with tempo, let me tell you something: there is a relationship between tension and time under tension. The more Tension, the less Time you can stay under it.

An Olympic lifter has pretty decent muscles, and they normally try to eat just about right to stay within their weight classes…if they actually ate the minimum 0,75 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight, they’ll grow enough to go into bodybuilding events.

The reason why is because they don’t need to spend 45-60 seconds under the bar per set, because their reps provide enough tension to create the necessary microfibrillar damage to promote hypertrophy. Also, this is why the 10 x 3 method can give you as much size as the 3 x 10, even if the reps last less time (less T.U.T. per rep)

My advise however, goes more with Go Heavy Fool’s advice: Pick a load where you can count a MAXIMUM of 1 full second, and that would be at the first reps. Now, go and do as many good reps as you can with it, and just 2 or 3 reps shy of failure, drop the laod, rest 10 seconds ( I don’t usually have spotters because I train very early, so I just rack the load, and spend those 10 seconds stripping the plates, but technically, they are 10 seconds of rest) and hit it again. I normally use 2 weight reductions and try to stay in a 8-15 reps range as well.

You may try doing 500 pushups a week if your body responds well to them, I see guys do 10 x 10 on dips 4-5 days a week and it seems to work well for them, and they do the reps so fast as to take just like 15 seconds, at the most, to do a set of 10 perfect textbook-form reps. And they look good.

Just go the the gym, lift something heavy in the best way you can, don’t count the reps, rack the load without having reached failure, strip some weight off and go at it again, 2 or 3 times more so you feel the msucles working…I work out three times a week and I do this like 3-4 times, it’s all I need now, but you shouldn do s much good hard work as you can per session and only come abck when you are ready to go at it again. You may need a week at first, then train twice a week, then three times and who knows, you might end up training 4-5 times a week.

As long as you put good and hard work into it, you’ll grow
[/quote]

Vandal,

Do you always do drop sets for every lift, or just your major ones? If you are doing drops for every lift, it seems like a quick way to overtrain. This may one of those crazy programs the OP was asking about.

I can’t say that all of his knowledge is worthless, he is simply asking for people’s opinions on programs that he does not consider the norm. I would say that never counting a rep or worrying about tempo is out of the norm for most people looking for hypertrophy.

As far as the 500 pushups a day goes, it is definately seems over the top to me. They could probably do a lot fewer, and still see the same results. It is just like people with repetitive motion jobs…how many mechanics do you see with small forearms. They turn wrenches all day, and their forearms grow.

I’m sure if you looked at farmers who pitch hay all day, you would find similarly large shoulders or backs. The downside is that once you do something wrong, you will end up with an overuse injury (tendinitis, bursitis, whatever), and it will be a long time before you will be doing pushups again.

Vandal,

Do you always do drop sets for every lift, or just your major ones? If you are doing drops for every lift, it seems like a quick way to overtrain. This may one of those crazy programs the OP was asking about.
----------------------------- :
Well, I do it for my major lifts: Bench pressing, overhead presing, rowing and pulling, squats and deadlifts.

To clarify my volume of work, allow me to tell you what I did last week in my workouts (Total body workouts)

I Started with Flat bench presses with a wide grip, squeezed a good 15 reps as a starting point and racked the weight for 30 seconds and loaded the bar 10% heavier ( I don’t drop or add more than 15%, or less than 10%, of the previous load used ). Then I squeezed out a set of 10 reps, racked the load, dropped some weight off, (this took me 10 seconds for i train too early to have good spotters available) and got only 8 reps, and then racked the load again and dropped some more weightand only got 6 reps out. I racked the load and without more than a couple seconds of rest, grabbed a pair of light dumbells and maxed out, I guess at the 18th rep of chest flyes.

Total time under tension, for those worried about it: around 60 seconds (that’s counting from the first rep with the initial load until the moment I dropped the dumbells at the botom of the 18th flye, substracting the 10 seconds of rest between weight reductions)

I do this 3-4 times and move to the next muscle. I only use one exercise per bodypart, but never use the same exercise for two consecutive workouts. I train chest, back, shoulders and legs 3 times a week.

I train forearms on fridays, and biceps and triceps are cycled doing one on monday and the other one on wednesday, basically running-the-rack after a heavy set.

can’t say that all of his knowledge is worthless, he is simply asking for people’s opinions on programs that he does not consider the norm. I would say that never counting a rep or worrying about tempo is out of the norm for most people looking for hypertrophy.
---------------------- :
I know that if you look for hypertrophy, you’ll want to get the most bang for your buck, therefore make sure you follow some basic guidelines.

Christian Thibaudeau says that if you want to hit the fast-twitch fibers, the volume of exercise can be set at 80 total reps per muscle group in a week. If you lean more towards a mixed ratio of fast and slow twitch fibers, you aim for 100 reps a week.

If you have been listening to tempo advise, you know that the mainstream idea is that you must ensure that a rep is productive, in its negative phase, as much as it is in a positive phase. So you eliminate the stretch-shortening cycle energy by making sure you spend 4 seconds between the lowering of the load and the pause at the bottom or reversal point.

That’s why some people lower in 2 seconds and pause for 2 seconds, and why others don’t pause and lower in 4 seconds. You just do your best, and do it as best as you can. Personally, I think the 3 seconds lowering and 1 second pause is a universally accepted guideline that works. As for the lifting, I prefer to lift in 1 second. there are guys who believe in lifting in 2 and so on…

This means that if a set must last anywhere between 40-70 seconds of T.U.T. to produce growth, you should just make sure you have the right tempo, so that when you multiply the number of reps per set by the number of seconds that each rep needs to be completed, you fall within this timeframe.

Problem is that some people forget that 3 x 10 is the same as 10 x 3, NUMERICALLY…they think they can use their 411,311 ,401 or 221 tempos and go heavier for the number of reps lowers enough for them to really make it hard.

This makes sense NUMERICALLY, but if you look at physiology, there are guys who lift with the same 10 x 3, with the same total reps per muscle a week than this guys, and yet, their tempos are something like 101, 201 and such…and they get just as big as the other guys do…?why? because they may be lifting faster, but they also lifted heavier…and at the end of the day, T.U.T. and Intensity are sitting in the plates of a scale, and they do balance each other out…

You can train with T.U.T. in a simpler way: Total T.U.T…doing a 3 sets of 10 reps scheme three times a week is staying between those 80-100 reps that Thib once prescribed in his “Game Plan” article (which ironically, goes out the window with any of his HSS-100 chest or back specialization programs, where he multiplies by 3 the normal HSS100 for a given bodypart to grow when it’s lagging, and the Hss100 is already a lot of reps above the 100 reps per week bracket)…when you do 3 sets of 10, you do 3 sets in the 40-70 seconds T.U.T. timeframe you need for growth…but you can also do 10 sets of 3 reps, and if you used the same tempo than to do 3 sets of 10, and each rep lasts the same, you will end up with the same T.U.T. per session than in the 3 x 10 method, only that your sets won’t be that long, and you’ll induce more damage by using heavier weights.

That’s why I told Louis that his knowledge was relative…and yes, I have the balls to accept that I did go a little hard on the guy (hope you forgive me dude, sometimes I get a little mad)… I don’t really believe in H.I.T. programs, but I do believe in their principles of training hard and go past disconfort and pain to give it your best and work hard… I don’t really advocate for tempo but I do feel that T.U.T. plays an important role, which goes above and beyond the simple timeframe for a given set, and I think that this is a factor which comes off as a product
of volume…

In other words: I believe that if you put a lot of hard work into something, without abusing yourself in the process, you get a lot of big rewards, and not by accepting any given program that the so-called Iron Guru’s write for the masses. I have seen guys train with a balls-to-the-wall, no-guts-no-glory attitude that can be hard to get into, but that gives them amazing results…and I hope, I know Lou’s got what it takes (just by posting his questions, he shows that he has enough balls to have it)to become a winner…

And those were my two-cents worth…hope to hear more from you guys, hit me on pvt, give me my 98 cents change for my buck, dammit!!

[quote]Vandal__Savage wrote:
Vandal,

Do you always do drop sets for every lift, or just your major ones? If you are doing drops for every lift, it seems like a quick way to overtrain. This may one of those crazy programs the OP was asking about.
----------------------------- :
Well, I do it for my major lifts: Bench pressing, overhead presing, rowing and pulling, squats and deadlifts.

To clarify my volume of work, allow me to tell you what I did last week in my workouts (Total body workouts)

I Started with Flat bench presses with a wide grip, squeezed a good 15 reps as a starting point and racked the weight for 30 seconds and loaded the bar 10% heavier ( I don’t drop or add more than 15%, or less than 10%, of the previous load used ). Then I squeezed out a set of 10 reps, racked the load, dropped some weight off, (this took me 10 seconds for i train too early to have good spotters available) and got only 8 reps, and then racked the load again and dropped some more weightand only got 6 reps out. I racked the load and without more than a couple seconds of rest, grabbed a pair of light dumbells and maxed out, I guess at the 18th rep of chest flyes.

Total time under tension, for those worried about it: around 60 seconds (that’s counting from the first rep with the initial load until the moment I dropped the dumbells at the botom of the 18th flye, substracting the 10 seconds of rest between weight reductions)

I do this 3-4 times and move to the next muscle. I only use one exercise per bodypart, but never use the same exercise for two consecutive workouts. I train chest, back, shoulders and legs 3 times a week.

I train forearms on fridays, and biceps and triceps are cycled doing one on monday and the other one on wednesday, basically running-the-rack after a heavy set.

can’t say that all of his knowledge is worthless, he is simply asking for people’s opinions on programs that he does not consider the norm. I would say that never counting a rep or worrying about tempo is out of the norm for most people looking for hypertrophy.
---------------------- :
I know that if you look for hypertrophy, you’ll want to get the most bang for your buck, therefore make sure you follow some basic guidelines.

Christian Thibaudeau says that if you want to hit the fast-twitch fibers, the volume of exercise can be set at 80 total reps per muscle group in a week. If you lean more towards a mixed ratio of fast and slow twitch fibers, you aim for 100 reps a week.

If you have been listening to tempo advise, you know that the mainstream idea is that you must ensure that a rep is productive, in its negative phase, as much as it is in a positive phase. So you eliminate the stretch-shortening cycle energy by making sure you spend 4 seconds between the lowering of the load and the pause at the bottom or reversal point.

That’s why some people lower in 2 seconds and pause for 2 seconds, and why others don’t pause and lower in 4 seconds. You just do your best, and do it as best as you can. Personally, I think the 3 seconds lowering and 1 second pause is a universally accepted guideline that works. As for the lifting, I prefer to lift in 1 second. there are guys who believe in lifting in 2 and so on…

This means that if a set must last anywhere between 40-70 seconds of T.U.T. to produce growth, you should just make sure you have the right tempo, so that when you multiply the number of reps per set by the number of seconds that each rep needs to be completed, you fall within this timeframe.

Problem is that some people forget that 3 x 10 is the same as 10 x 3, NUMERICALLY…they think they can use their 411,311 ,401 or 221 tempos and go heavier for the number of reps lowers enough for them to really make it hard.

This makes sense NUMERICALLY, but if you look at physiology, there are guys who lift with the same 10 x 3, with the same total reps per muscle a week than this guys, and yet, their tempos are something like 101, 201 and such…and they get just as big as the other guys do…?why? because they may be lifting faster, but they also lifted heavier…and at the end of the day, T.U.T. and Intensity are sitting in the plates of a scale, and they do balance each other out…

You can train with T.U.T. in a simpler way: Total T.U.T…doing a 3 sets of 10 reps scheme three times a week is staying between those 80-100 reps that Thib once prescribed in his “Game Plan” article (which ironically, goes out the window with any of his HSS-100 chest or back specialization programs, where he multiplies by 3 the normal HSS100 for a given bodypart to grow when it’s lagging, and the Hss100 is already a lot of reps above the 100 reps per week bracket)…when you do 3 sets of 10, you do 3 sets in the 40-70 seconds T.U.T. timeframe you need for growth…but you can also do 10 sets of 3 reps, and if you used the same tempo than to do 3 sets of 10, and each rep lasts the same, you will end up with the same T.U.T. per session than in the 3 x 10 method, only that your sets won’t be that long, and you’ll induce more damage by using heavier weights.

That’s why I told Louis that his knowledge was relative…and yes, I have the balls to accept that I did go a little hard on the guy (hope you forgive me dude, sometimes I get a little mad)… I don’t really believe in H.I.T. programs, but I do believe in their principles of training hard and go past disconfort and pain to give it your best and work hard… I don’t really advocate for tempo but I do feel that T.U.T. plays an important role, which goes above and beyond the simple timeframe for a given set, and I think that this is a factor which comes off as a product
of volume…

In other words: I believe that if you put a lot of hard work into something, without abusing yourself in the process, you get a lot of big rewards, and not by accepting any given program that the so-called Iron Guru’s write for the masses. I have seen guys train with a balls-to-the-wall, no-guts-no-glory attitude that can be hard to get into, but that gives them amazing results…and I hope, I know Lou’s got what it takes (just by posting his questions, he shows that he has enough balls to have it)to become a winner…

And those were my two-cents worth…hope to hear more from you guys, hit me on pvt, give me my 98 cents change for my buck, dammit!!

[/quote]
This is a very good post and written by someone with experience. It takes alot of years to learn how to or be able to lift like this. I highly second, recommend, and exercise these same principles and workouts. this is highly valuable information if you’re reading my post. I would highly suggest reading what is wrote above me and commiting it to memory.

[quote]louisluthor wrote:
hey Go Heavy:

Ok, you guys drink a lot of red wine, hhmm…guess I should quit the tequila and start taking up red wine, LOL…

Well, as per other news, I have tried your strategy of drop sets, and so far, it works well…doing between 8-10 reps and then dropping the load by 10-15% and squeezing out another 8-10, and finally strip off another 15-10% to squeeze a final 8-10 reps seems fine for me, I keep the reps fast, but controlled, making each rep last like a second and a half tops, perhaps a little less, but if I am honest, I can’t count a full second on the concentric or the eccentric phase, it would be more like 0.65 to 0,75 seconds on each given phase.

I have seen some really strange ways to exercise.: do the 1-and-a-1/2’s on the dipping bars, do partial reps on the pushups for “constant tension”, do dips with a 15-20 seconds contraction at the top of the dips, for like 2-3 reps per set…and these oddball methods work, but the thing that abffles me is how simpleton routines like doing 500 classic pushups a day, 5 days a week can get you big[/quote]

Define big. I think your definition of big is very different from my definition of big.

Everything works sometimes, but nothing works all of the time.

Its the general adaptation syndrome at its best.

It is good to find something that you respond well to, but once you max out your results from that, you have to find something else to respond to.

Thats why you see people doing different things.

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Everything works sometimes, but nothing works all of the time.

Its the general adaptation syndrome at its best.

It is good to find something that you respond well to, but once you max out your results from that, you have to find something else to respond to.

Thats why you see people doing different things.


I couldn’t agree more.

I defend my training principles, not my training programs…my periodization scheme may sound absurd, but every three weeks I switch and cut in half the number of reps I get…if I was doing drop sets and got 10 reps then 8 reps then 6 reps, I cut it down to 8 reps, then 4 reps then 2 reps.

I also like to point out that I change exercises often. If I train 3 times a week, I do flat barbell bench press on monday, decline press on wednesday and incline press on friday.

I also change grips, in position and width, train with dumbells every third week, or use machines every once in a while…

I always strive to cut down the rest periods, so from 2 minutes, I may end up in in 1 minute, and for a couple sets, just 45-30 seconds…I am constantly striving to make things harder…that can beat any adaptation syndrome effects…also a small thing…work out for 3 weeks and rest 1…that’ll prevent any systemic damage.


[/quote]

It takes alot of years to learn how to or be able to lift like this. I highly second, recommend, and exercise these same principles and workouts. this is highly valuable information if you’re reading my post. I would highly suggest reading what is wrote above me and commiting it to memory.

Thanks for your comments, Go Heavy Fool, I just have been around the iron game…I have to shamefully admit that due to the missus, I am not as big as I want to be, so I stopped all supplementation and protein powders, and stuck to a natural dietary intake that would resemble an Amish’s diets, and she is a vegetarian so, I need to adapt my diet to it, not to mention she’s got me jogging with her twice a day for 5 miles, for I love her very much, and she loves the way I look, even though I feel skinny…let me show you a pic to clarify…

Well guys see you soon, and remember, it’s all about lots of hard work and giving it your best, nobody gets a million out of investing a buck…

[quote]Vandal__Savage wrote:
To clarify my volume of work, allow me to tell you what I did last week in my workouts (Total body workouts)

I Started with Flat bench presses with a wide grip, squeezed a good 15 reps as a starting point and racked the weight for 30 seconds and loaded the bar 10% heavier ( I don’t drop or add more than 15%, or less than 10%, of the previous load used ). Then I squeezed out a set of 10 reps, racked the load, dropped some weight off, (this took me 10 seconds for i train too early to have good spotters available) and got only 8 reps, and then racked the load again and dropped some more weightand only got 6 reps out. I racked the load and without more than a couple seconds of rest, grabbed a pair of light dumbells and maxed out, I guess at the 18th rep of chest flyes.

Total time under tension, for those worried about it: around 60 seconds (that’s counting from the first rep with the initial load until the moment I dropped the dumbells at the botom of the 18th flye, substracting the 10 seconds of rest between weight reductions)

I do this 3-4 times and move to the next muscle. I only use one exercise per bodypart, but never use the same exercise for two consecutive workouts. I train chest, back, shoulders and legs 3 times a week.

Vandal,
Good defense of your position. Which, by the way, I don’t totally disagree with.
However, unless I misunderstood you it seems to me that you believe in the 80-100 reps per bodypart per week that Thib recommended. If I’m wrong, stop reading…but it seems that a typical set of chest for you looks like:

15 reps…add weight
10 reps…drop weight
8 reps…drop weight
6 reps…drop weight
18 flyes

=57 reps per set

If you do 3-4 sets:

3x57 = 171 reps
or 4x57 = 228 reps

If you train Flat bench, incline bench, and decline bench once per week, you hit your chest three times per week:

3 x 171 reps = 513 reps
3 x 228 reps = 684 reps

Am I missing something here, or is that way above the 80-100 reps per bodypart per week.

Maybe the first 15 reps you mentioned were only a warm-up, but even so, the number of reps get very high…something like:

15 reps warmup

  • 42 reps per set x 3 sets = 126 reps
    or 42 reps x 4 sets = 168 reps

x 3 days per week is still 400 or more reps per bodypart.

Sorry about all the math guys…

This still seems like a lot of volume, unless I completely misread your post. Please clarify.

[quote]Modi wrote:
Vandal__Savage wrote:
To clarify my volume of work, allow me to tell you what I did last week in my workouts (Total body workouts)

I Started with Flat bench presses with a wide grip, squeezed a good 15 reps as a starting point and racked the weight for 30 seconds and loaded the bar 10% heavier ( I don’t drop or add more than 15%, or less than 10%, of the previous load used ). Then I squeezed out a set of 10 reps, racked the load, dropped some weight off, (this took me 10 seconds for i train too early to have good spotters available) and got only 8 reps, and then racked the load again and dropped some more weightand only got 6 reps out. I racked the load and without more than a couple seconds of rest, grabbed a pair of light dumbells and maxed out, I guess at the 18th rep of chest flyes.

Total time under tension, for those worried about it: around 60 seconds (that’s counting from the first rep with the initial load until the moment I dropped the dumbells at the botom of the 18th flye, substracting the 10 seconds of rest between weight reductions)

I do this 3-4 times and move to the next muscle. I only use one exercise per bodypart, but never use the same exercise for two consecutive workouts. I train chest, back, shoulders and legs 3 times a week.

Vandal,
Good defense of your position. Which, by the way, I don’t totally disagree with.
However, unless I misunderstood you it seems to me that you believe in the 80-100 reps per bodypart per week that Thib recommended. If I’m wrong, stop reading…but it seems that a typical set of chest for you looks like:

15 reps…add weight
10 reps…drop weight
8 reps…drop weight
6 reps…drop weight
18 flyes

=57 reps per set

If you do 3-4 sets:

3x57 = 171 reps
or 4x57 = 228 reps

If you train Flat bench, incline bench, and decline bench once per week, you hit your chest three times per week:

3 x 171 reps = 513 reps
3 x 228 reps = 684 reps

Am I missing something here, or is that way above the 80-100 reps per bodypart per week.

Maybe the first 15 reps you mentioned were only a warm-up, but even so, the number of reps get very high…something like:

15 reps warmup

  • 42 reps per set x 3 sets = 126 reps
    or 42 reps x 4 sets = 168 reps

x 3 days per week is still 400 or more reps per bodypart.

Sorry about all the math guys…

This still seems like a lot of volume, unless I completely misread your post. Please clarify.[/quote]

Modi, when using dropsets and HIT type techniques… you will end up with a boatload of reps. This is what forces the muscle to grow. “Pushing thru the pain barrier” …this is sometimes referred to as. I know when I train calves, I end up with over 100 reps per set and these are not light weight either, alot of the reps are a 7 rep heavy weight then a quick pause or I’ll do a dropdown set with no rest. You will only need a few sets at this high intensity training.

You may only need 3 or 4 total sets per muscle then move on to the next. Your frequency depends on genetics and experience. Ideally 1-3 times a week of 4 sets of excruciating pain in these “monster sets” I call them. The 10x3 method works, the 3x10 method works. But, when you force your muscles thru and past the pain barrier in rest pauses, dropsets, forced reps, supersets, giantsets, you will discover a whole new kind of pain and this is what really makes the muscle actually then grow… its forced to, it has no choice. Pushing thru pain only helps you push thru more pain and make greater gains in future training having built up your pain tollerance.

I cannot stress the importance of building up a pain tollerance and threshold for maximizing your potential and building muscle. The one person I can think of that had an incredible pain tollerance also had the most incredible body I’ve ever seen…“Arnold Schwarzenegger”.

“The more pain your body is put through, the more beautiful it becomes”

Ok, first of all Modi, the initial 15 reps ARE warm-ups, you got that right.

Second, the 400 reps per muscle group a week is correct. I like such volume…remember I explained the concept of T.U.T. training without tempo, as Thib once explained in his article “Superman Sets” about the use of timed sets for hypertrophy, although i may have forgotten to mention that particular article…

thing is, I discovered that I DO follow the 80-100 reps per muscle group a week thing, and most people with insanely big volumes do without even knowing, because as Lou told me on a pvt, there’s a mathematical constant you find through 90% of the progrmas you see out there:

you multiply the number of reps you put into a muscle group during a 7-day cycle by their length or individual T.U.T. and you end up in a total T.U.T. timezone of 400-700 seconds per week of tension. Try it with classical GVT: 10 sets of 10 reps = 100 reps, done with 4020 temp? = 6 seconds T.U.T. per rep, by 100 = 600 seconds of T.U.T. per bodypart each week.

Try a bodybuilding routine as done by several pros: 200 reps per muscle group a week, on a single day, going into twice as much volume as GVT but limiting to 3-5 sets per exercise, meaning the use of 5 exercises, 2-3 compounds and 1-2 isolation ones, with a 2010 tempo…the result ends up being the same 200 reps of 3 seconds = 600 seconds of T.U.T…

Lou’s onto something with his math, and I may be onto something with my intensity, and I think what we all should do is just give it a good and honest try.

As I said, the worst thing that can happen, if you don’t go insanely heavy or sloppy in form, is that you get more cut and defined and your muscles get toned and denser, harder…it enver hurt anyone to make an effort, and it’ll be a good change of pace.

By the way, I recommed an exercise most of us forget: Hip thrusts…let me tell you, the missus loves it when we hit the sack, and I got to thank 3 exercises for that: good mornings, old school sit-ups and hanging leg raises and hip thrusts…ask her if you don’t believe me…

Well guys, over and out, time to go to bed, and try to get some sleep tonight,so hope to see you soon. By the way, if Lou could, anyone can drop me a line on PVT if they feel liek it, I am all ears for you guys…especially if someone could give me a small advice on a problem a friend of mine in Sao Paulo has:

What would be the most sought-after career, the most on-demand field of occupation in the next 5-7 years in the USA: Industrial Engineering, mechanical Engineering, Chemical Engineering… or Biochemistry (focused on pharmacological processes)…he’s a bright boy and a great martial artist who hopes to make it up North, but has some doubts about his career choice, as he comes of age and enters college next year…being a Lawyer myself, I can’t really help him

Hope you guys have any imput, you can send it to me, on PMs of course, I can’t take advantage of Lou’s thread’s hospitality…see you guys…

[quote]Vandal__Savage wrote:

Thanks for your comments, Go Heavy Fool, I just have been around the iron game…I have to shamefully admit that due to the missus, I am not as big as I want to be, so I stopped all supplementation and protein powders, and stuck to a natural dietary intake that would resemble an Amish’s diets, and she is a vegetarian so, I need to adapt my diet to it, not to mention she’s got me jogging with her twice a day for 5 miles, for I love her very much, and she loves the way I look, even though I feel skinny…let me show you a pic to clarify…

Well guys see you soon, and remember, it’s all about lots of hard work and giving it your best, nobody gets a million out of investing a buck…
[/quote]

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

Go Heavy,
I’m not questioning whether Vandal or your program works, my question was for Vandal to explain his total volume. I was under the impression that he believed in 80-100 reps per muscle group per week, and it seemed to me that he was using 400+ reps per week. I just wanted to know which it was. I find I train mcuh higher than 80 reps per week and at a high intensity too. I just like to know that people back up what the believe in.