10 Weeks Testosterone Enanthate

Hi All

Whilst arguing the merits of anabolic steroids with a friend I stumbled across this research paper which pretty much clinched the argument for me.

In summary they took 4 groups of men who regularly lifted weights and divided them into:
Group 1: No Steroids, No Weights
Group 2: Steroids, No Weights
Group 3: No Steroids, Weights
Group 4: Steroids, Weights

The results were pretty conclusive:
Group 1: 0 lb of muscle gained
Group 2: 7 lb of muscle gained
Group 3: 4 lb of muscle gained
Group 4: 13 lb of muscle gained

The surprise for me was that men taking steroids but doing no weight training gained more than twice as much mass as men taking no steroids but doing high intensity (75-90% maximal) weight training and that the men taking steroids and weight-lifting gained almost four times as much muscle as the natural guys.

So, now I’m interested; I train pretty hard and I’ve seen steady progress over the last couple of years and I’ve gotten myself from not a lot to a three lift combined 1400lb but to take it to the next level…

These guys were given 600mg of Testosterone Enanthate once a week for 10 weeks.
They did no Post Cycle Therapy at all, their hormone levels were monitored until the returned to normal.

My assumption is that because this was done by scientists to members of the public this protocol is reasonably safe for a first timer.

My plan is to do for 3 months a year does this sound like a sensible plan?

Lets keep it simple and logical.

One of the main objectives of pct is to expedite recovery. Would you consider it wise to be suppressed for several months with all the side effects that come with high estrogen, low test etc for a 2.5 month cycle?

Edit:

Ok i just read your last sentence. You need more research.

Perhaps a supplementary question is, how long would it take for natural hormone levels to return?

The study sampled hormone levels throughout the training period and once 4 months after the end of training.
At the start of the 10 weeks 450 ng/dl (prior to the first injection) and went up to 3250 ng/dl at the end of the 10 weeks (i.e. a week after the final injection).

There is no data showing how the free testosterone levels fluctuated between the end of the cycle and the last blood test.
My assumption is that after 4 months testosterone levels had returned to normal and the subjects required no further monitoring.

If your gonna run 600mg of test 40 weeks out of the year you would only be off 3 weeks in between 3 of those cycles before the hear is up you. Might as,well just stay on year around if that is,your proposal. How ever I agree you need,more research asap.

My bad… Maths fail.

Shall we saw once or twice a year.

Sorry for the confusion.

[quote]tmp_banjo wrote:
Perhaps a supplementary question is, how long would it take for natural hormone levels to return?

The study sampled hormone levels throughout the training period and once 4 months after the end of training.
At the start of the 10 weeks 450 ng/dl (prior to the first injection) and went up to 3250 ng/dl at the end of the 10 weeks (i.e. a week after the final injection).

There is no data showing how the free testosterone levels fluctuated between the end of the cycle and the last blood test.
My assumption is that after 4 months testosterone levels had returned to normal and the subjects required no further monitoring.

[/quote]

Honestly, who knows? There is not enough data to give an average. Some may never recover although with so many factors involved it is hard to prove causation. It is best not to make assumptions when it comes to your balls.

But since you stated you want to stay on most of the year(which i didn’t see before the edit), this would be irrelevant.

Please do more research.

I’m very tempted…I know there a lot of variables here but it looks as if this protocol would triple my gains over my usual 12 week cycle.
Even if I ran this for one cycle a year it would be like gaining an extra 6 months every year.

I just don’t see any data about the rate of recovery of free testosterone naturally (without PCT).
It seems to me that for the subjects in this study 4 months allowed all subjects to return to normal levels.

I just don’t know how low their testosterone levels got or for how long they were suppressed.
I don’t know very much about PCT and it looks like a tone of extra drugs which I can’t find much clear science about.

gains on steroids are not linear, lol. Doesn’t work like that. Especially if you plan to run the same dose over and over again.

[quote]tmp_banjo wrote:
I’m very tempted…I know there a lot of variables here but it looks as if this protocol would triple my gains over my usual 12 week cycle.
Even if I ran this for one cycle a year it would be like gaining an extra 6 months every year.

I just don’t see any data about the rate of recovery of free testosterone naturally (without PCT).
It seems to me that for the subjects in this study 4 months allowed all subjects to return to normal levels.

I just don’t know how low their testosterone levels got or for how long they were suppressed.
I don’t know very much about PCT and it looks like a tone of extra drugs which I can’t find much clear science about.[/quote]

How on earth are you not able to find research on pct drugs??? Clomid itself is already being used as an alternative to testosterone in trt.

[quote]dt79 wrote:
It is best not to make assumptions when it comes to your balls.
[/quote]

truth

but your interest in testosterone is not misplaced, it does good things.

You would be much better off running a lower dose indefinitely especially if you don’t plan on using a pct, and as stated it does not continue to pile on muscle at the same dose. For something that consistent think of it as raising the threshold for the amount of muscle you can currently hold at that dose.

Im quite content staying at a low dose of testosterone and taking higher doses and other AAS 2 to 3 times a year.

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]tmp_banjo wrote:
I’m very tempted…I know there a lot of variables here but it looks as if this protocol would triple my gains over my usual 12 week cycle.
Even if I ran this for one cycle a year it would be like gaining an extra 6 months every year.

I just don’t see any data about the rate of recovery of free testosterone naturally (without PCT).
It seems to me that for the subjects in this study 4 months allowed all subjects to return to normal levels.

I just don’t know how low their testosterone levels got or for how long they were suppressed.
I don’t know very much about PCT and it looks like a tone of extra drugs which I can’t find much clear science about.[/quote]

How on earth are you not able to find research on pct drugs??? Clomid itself is already being used as an alternative to testosterone in trt.
[/quote]

is that so?

I like the periodic use of ancilleries like serms/hcg to mediate testicular atrophy and I do find myself liking clomid.

I never liked it during pct because at 150mg a day I would break out and be somewhat moody but at 50mg I like it.

I feel like taking it often is bad for you, I think vision problems were reported in something I read

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]tmp_banjo wrote:
I’m very tempted…I know there a lot of variables here but it looks as if this protocol would triple my gains over my usual 12 week cycle.
Even if I ran this for one cycle a year it would be like gaining an extra 6 months every year.

I just don’t see any data about the rate of recovery of free testosterone naturally (without PCT).
It seems to me that for the subjects in this study 4 months allowed all subjects to return to normal levels.

I just don’t know how low their testosterone levels got or for how long they were suppressed.
I don’t know very much about PCT and it looks like a tone of extra drugs which I can’t find much clear science about.[/quote]

How on earth are you not able to find research on pct drugs??? Clomid itself is already being used as an alternative to testosterone in trt.
[/quote]

is that so?

I like the periodic use of ancilleries like serms/hcg to mediate testicular atrophy and I do find myself liking clomid.

I never liked it during pct because at 150mg a day I would break out and be somewhat moody but at 50mg I like it.

I feel like taking it often is bad for you, I think vision problems were reported in something I read
[/quote]

Yup.

Not too sure about long term side effects though. The last time i cycled was nearly a decade ago. I don’t remember any vision issues but the bloody mood swings were certainly there.

More recent:

First of all, thanks to everyone who has replied so far; your experience and advice is greatly appreciated.

It’s clear to me (and probably everyone who reads this forum) that doses of testosterone really help you to pack muscle on.

What wasn’t clear to me until recently was how much of a help they were or that the body responds by shutting down it’s own testosterone production.

So my first thought was, you take testosterone and pack on the muscle, stop taking it but keep using the muscle you’ve gained and “Bob’s your uncle” you stay big.

OK, things are not that simple - SURPRISE - Once you stop taking the testosterone your levels drop right down to a lower than normal range meaning that it is hard for your body to maintain the muscle that it has so this is where people “lose their gains”.

What’s is not clear to me is:
How low the levels of testosterone get and for how long?
How much PCT like Clomid and Tamoxifen help?
and
Is it possible to maintain the greater muscle mass at the normal level of testosterone?

Thanks a bunch dt79!

So it seems that PCT with clomid returned testosterone levels to normal in around 4-6 weeks rather than at most 4 months.

That seems like a bloody good reason to do PCT.

The links i posted were on clomid use for hrt.

Again, i stress, you need to do research.

"My assumption is that because this was done by scientists to members of the public this protocol is reasonably safe for a first timer. "

it might be safe, but you will probably keep less gains not doing PCT.

the scientists goal was to see what happened to the guys muscle gain results, not to ensure the guys kept the muscle they gained on cycle

I’m a little confused. Are you saying you don’t want to do a PCT?

[quote]Yogi wrote:
I’m a little confused. Are you saying you don’t want to do a PCT?[/quote]

No he just didn’t know anything about pct and steroids in general as all his knowledge was based off the article he linked lol.

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
I’m a little confused. Are you saying you don’t want to do a PCT?[/quote]

No he just didn’t know anything about pct and steroids in general as all his knowledge was based off the article he linked lol.[/quote]

ah ok. I hate that stupid study that shows steroids give you like 20lbs of muscle without even working out.

Anyone who’s used steroids will tell you THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN