T Nation

10/16 Cool Tip?


#1

Who in here does splits along with myself, and believe what Chad wrote here is just a bunch of horseshit? Chad is very intelligent, but does he actually think that all the pro bodybuilders dont know what the fuck they're doing, and do splits because they don't want bigger muscles.

That statement might be true for a strength or performance type athlete. But, when it comes to aesthetics and physique oriented goals(Arnold Schwarzenegger)... I'd like him to tell that to Arnold... and say splits can't beat a fullbody routine.

What is this, some kind of stab at CT, for his latest article... and CT is a split training type bodybuilder? If so, CT still stands firm and has the best way to train for bodybuilders building bigger muscles.

What the fuck, even the authors seem like they're taking stabs at each other in this fullbody vs split bullshit.


#2

Here's what I want to know.... Where are all of the Waterbury-trained bodybuiders? If what he says is true, then he is producing mass monsters. Well, where are they?

You'll notice that Waterbury never actually supports his arguments - e.g., by pointing to the bodybuilders who use his "methods." He just makes assertions.

But he has a lot of fanboys, and they'll do whatever he says ("Great article, man! I'm going to start this tonight!"); so he doesn't need to actually support his arguments.


#3

I beleive he refering to what most people are, regular people! If he beleieves that full-body is the way to go, thats his opinion. Jeez.


#4

Man, this argument will never die huh?

I've had a lot of success with Waterbury's TBT and ABBH. I know a lot of other people here have, too. It's proof enough for me.


#5

I saw this thread coming...

I gained 6 lbs. of muscle in 8 weeks on Chad's BBNF. I do participate in sports, so I like the idea of improving overall fitness and strength while still maintaining the primary goal of hypertrophy.

I also respect the results that CT gets, so I'm going to deload this week, then I'll start HSS-100. I've been doing Waterbury's programs for a while now so I think it's time for a change.


#6

He's has a lot of sound reasons for pushing his training philosophy.

Fact is bodybuilders have already pretty much maxed out training stimulus in my opinion. No matter what new training scheme one follows I doubt it will be enough to out do what the pros have already accomplished using splits. I just don't think training stimulus is the weak link at the highest levels.

That said he may well prove over time that his philosophy could get you there easier and faster and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of lower level lifters and average trainees could do better using his approach rather than split training.

Time and testing will tell.


#7

The statement that total body beats splits any day of the week is what I have a problem with.

Professer x, and many other big people use splits.

Some people don't.

Apparently, splits do work, So, total body does NOT beat splits, any day of the week.

Must mean the total body works, and split works too. It just depends on the person, and their goals. I could not imagine squatting and deadlifting on the same day, and being able to give them both the full attention they need. My shoulders are swelling now that they have their own day, away from bench.

So, Total body doesn't always win. I think total body is good for beginners, and splits are good for advanced. (not calling myself advanced though.)

Maybe we should just let big Thib and Chad duke it out in the Biotest parking lot.


#8

Although I havent finished BBNF, the gains I'm getting from it do not compare to the gains I have seen from HSS-100 programs. I'm giving the total body thing a shot and if it isn't right for me I'll go back to splits. I agree with the poster above who said it probably varies from person to person. If you find what works for you then thats really all that matters.

Can't we all just...get along?


#9

Obviously it's some kind of reaction for CT's last article, but I don't think there's personnal animosity between Thib and Chad,I hope so...


#10

It looks like it was ghost written from CW's latest article which was put out before CT's article.


#11

Jesus.

Just train according to your own personal goals. Who gives a mother flying fuck if someone else has a different philosophy than yours?

No one Way is best for everyone at all times. Everything works.

Cluttering up the board with these bullshit arguments is senseless. Just shut the fuck up and train.
Anyone with the proper commitment and dedication will find their path. If they can't (and truly wish to), they need to try harder.
Find what works for you. Do what works for you.


#12

Just in case no one has realized that the Cool Tips, as with all T-Nation tips, are from old articles. Therefore it definetely wasnt CW taking a stab at CT recent article!

Possibly the persons who manage the cool tips decided to use that tip now because this debate has been hotter than usual lately.


#13

I haven't seen a single full-body program where people squat and deadlift on the same day. Usually the squat is on, let's say monday for example, and the deadlift would follow on tuesday or wednesday.


#14

Waterbury has trained hundreds of normal people looking to gain muscle, while most people on here have trained one person, themselves. He never said splits don't work. He simply has a shitload of empirical evidence that says TBT works better for more people than a bodypart split. And to point to every bodybuilder/big guy and say they use a split is a biased sample fallacy because there are way more people who use splits and don't receive the results they want. And yes, I am a Waterbury Fanboy because IMO he's one of the few trainers willing to think outside of the box.


#15

I think the one thing that always seems to get lost in the shuffle or pushed to the back of the bus is that your training program won't amount to a hill of beans, for any given set of goals, without proper recovery and a sound and adequate diet.

Most of the coaches here, regardless of personal philosophy, have regularly said that training consistently and hard and providing yourself with the proper fuel is the real key to achieving your goals.

Sure one program might make that extra 10 percent difference over another, but that's only after nutrition and recovery are adequately taken care of. I think you'll find scores of people who succeed very well on total body programs as well as split programs, and the common thread for all is proper nutrition and recovery.

And, if anything, it might do any trainee some good to briefly switch from total-body training to a split or vice versa for a brief phase every few months during their training year.


#16

I did it (Squat and DL in the same day 3x/week) through CW's TBT training, when I gave it a try.


#17

Total body programs with the right intensity work. If you enjoy them.
Splits with the right intensity work. If you enjoy them. IT just depends who you are and what you enjoy most. The thing that pisses me off about this constant debate is: I 'like' lifting 5 days a week. I 'like' doing splits. I 'like' not lifting on the weekend. Get the key word in there? To me, they are more satisfying. That's why i lift. I enjoy it. Total body training is not enjoyable to me. That's just me. If i had to do total body workouts all the time i'd get very demotivated regardless of their ability to 'revolutionise the world of bodybuilding' I don't enjoy it.
I'm sorry but if you can only advocate one type of training, for all situations, your narrow minded and not worth listening to. Has everyone forgotten your supposed to be at least trying to have a good time?


#18

Hi Go Heavy,

I really don't understand the recent increase in heated debates over this subject. I realize that some people prefer total body, while others prefer splits. I also realize that many people will passionately defend their choice of workout paradigm and ridicule the other paradigm.

However, I don't agree with ridiculing CW , or CT for that matter, for saying that one is "always" better than the other. If you really take the time to read through what they say, and take into account the context in which they are saying these things, you'll realize that both coaches actually agree with each other.

Waterbury's articles are about how to build the maximal overall muscle mass in the quickest most efficient way possible. They also tend to be directed towards beginners (not that more advanced trainees can't also see results from them). Therefore he recommonds using total body workouts, high frequency, and diverse exercise selections/set-rep schemes.

CT's latest article was purely about building an asethetically pleasing phsyique. And from what I gathered from it was geared more towards experienced lifters who had already built up a good base of strength/muscle.

In the article CT wrote:
"I want to make it clear that the big, basic, compound free-weight movements performed with heavy weights will always be the best overall mass-builders."

You see, so CT is actually agreeing with Waterbury. He is simply trying to say that at some point in one's training, if they want to build an aesthetic looking body, or be a bodybuilder, one will need to switch to bodypart splits (unless they are lucky enough to be someone with perfect genetics/structure as CT said). He also cites the excessive volume needed for optimal balance and development of naturally weaker body parts for a reason to switch to body part splits.

But, hey that's just my observations on the subject.

Good training,

Sentoguy


#19

I like the fact that the authors on this site don't agree with each other on all the points of the iron game.

At a gym I used to work at the manager subscribed to Muscle Media. That was some shit reading. Every program that was ever in it reeked of the Body for Life principles. Every nutritional article stated that you coulnd't take in more than 30g of protein per meal.

I'm a huge Thib fan, so I have to say that I follow his articles with great interest. So I'm in his corner.

It is just a case of 'Horses for courses.'


#20

I am assuming that there are a bunch of folks on here that have never tried any of CW's programs. If you had - you would not be slamming him so hard because everyone of his prgrams I have tried have worked.

You rarely see anyone post saying that his programs suck. I have never gotten a thing out of CT's programs. I won't say they suck - but they don't work for me.

Everything works...for a while. Nothing works forever.

CW has found a niche with his TBT philosophy. Why are you knocking the guy?

How much money have the haters made designing programs?