OK it’s ME Bench day. I did rack presses for ME exercise. Then I hit my triceps with 5 sets of dips. Then I did shoulders which consisted of a rotator cuff circuit I do consisting of three exercises done for 2 sets of 12 reps each. Then I want to hit my lats…I like to do both pull-ups and rows to make sure I hit lats from both vertical and horizontal planes.
1.)Should I do pull-ups on ME day and rows on DE day? Because today, I didn’t even get to the rows and was already putting in overtime…
2.) In general, how much accessory/ assistance work should be done each day and what should be done each day?
Although I’m training westside, I still want to make sure everything is in balance, and I do alot of pulling for my back. My back needs work.
Yeh i found i had the same problem on bench days. Cos i like to do my chins and i wanted to start doing olys i added an upper back/bicep day ME and DE.
Normally do 3 or 4 assistance exercises in addition to the main movement of the day. Don’t really do much ME deads, which isn’t such a problem on Westside anyway.
1.)Should I do pull-ups on ME day and rows on DE day? Because today, I didn’t even get to the rows and was already putting in overtime…
yea go ahead and do them at westside the actual workout takes a hour but they spend 15 min to a half hour doing gpp and light assitant work before they train they also drag the sled and use the sledmill…so i wouldnt worry about the whole 1 hour thing if your not doing agpp-warmups before hand…my work outs usually take a hour and 15 minutes to a hour and a half…you may want to add in the pull ups as a gpp warm-up and then go ahead and do the rows as your back asseccory movement…
2.) In general, how much accessory/ assistance work should be done each day and what should be done each day?
on bench days i like to do gpp-warm up assitant work for my lats, shoulders and upper back before i train i try to get in 10-15 sets of a low-moderate intensity and i like to superset them at very fast pace this allows me to concentrate on them a little better than i would if i did them after my work out…this take me about 10-15 minutes…it also helps me keep in shape and brings up my work capacity…after my max bench movement i like to train the section of the bench my movement missed…then i hit the upper back hard for about 8 sets…
try supersetting it, ie doing a set of chest followed by rows followed by bench, superset the shoulders with vertical pulling… When i say superset i dont mean do it with no rest, use good rest periods…
Im pretty sure goldberg mentioned doing this to save time…
paul yes it would…my training partner likes to do that as where i do not…i dont like the extra workout thing but a few of my training partners do…for example my training partner today for max effort bench just did his gpp warm up and his 4 board presses then he came back later tonight and did some shrugs and barbellrows and some other light shoulder stuff…if i did this personally i would burn out real fast but it works for him and he is very succsessfull benches nearly 500 pounds at 20yrs old so you cant argue with succses…this is also the way dave tate and chuck vogephol are known for training they do 10-20 extra workouts a week…but for example mike ruggerria and jim wendler do no extra workouts at all and feel they do better just recovering, so i would say i am much more like this …like i said personally i couldnt do it but it works for them…i may drag the sled a little bit more during good wheather just for some conditioning but thats about all i do…but yea it can be done but you have to be very carefull and keep the intensity low and the volume low also…big martin
greekdawg…personally i think you could do both on both bench days…i think the superset idea is best…a typical example would look like this
max eff bench day…
max effort movement
tricep movement
a1. barbell rows 3-5 sets of 4-20 reps
a2. pulls ups 3-5 sets of 4-20 reps
dyanamic bench day
speed bench
tricep movement
a1. dumebll rows 3-5 sets of 4-20 reps
a2. close grip chins 3-5 sets of 4-20 reps
this will work fine…
also the way i train my back is for size all i care about is having a huge back so the bar can have a place to sit when i squat and i can have a huge pillow of muscle to sit on when i bench…so i train the lats and upper back with a lot of volume and a lot of reps…i train my traps heavier because of the deadlift…but my priority with my back is to get it fucking huge…hope this helsp…big martin
We train upper back to warm up prior to the first movement on ME and DE day. We typically super set shrugs and some kind or face pull. Like Martin said, these are done fast. You go, I go. We used to train pulls on DE, rows on ME. We have stopped doing this and instead train rows for two weeks then some kind of pull for two weeks, alternating. For rows we are currently concentrating on fat man pullups against bands to work our bench bar path (and to kind of mimic how our shirts behave), and supported rows with bands. For pulls we are working pull-ups with palms facing and chins. We use both weight and bands (choked around 2 dumbells and looped around the back or our knees) for the pulls, sometimes combining both. When this gets stale, we may go back to what we were doing before. The point is we have identified things that we suck at and hypothesize will increase our core lifts, and train them. I wouldn’t be too concerned with hitting from both angles, but rather picking exercises that address what needs to come up (in other words, that you suck at) and rotating through them until they are satisfactory. For example, if you are a great bent rower, or good at chins, stop training them for a while. Find another movement you are weak at and train it. I do no extra workouts except sled dragging. Anything I want to emphasize is done as a warm-up before the first movement with a very quick pace. (upper back, grip and calves.) I still only do 4 movements per session. (Following warm-up.) I am always done in 45-50 minutes. Great question. I am learning things, too.
Thanks a bunch…I think I’m going to try those reccomendations. I’m definately not an 'extra workout type of guy" so I have to go with Wendler and Ruggerria on that one. That would definately burn me out real fast.
by the way APW where do you train?
Heavysprout,
Currently, I do single arm external rotations seated with a dumbell with my elbow planted on my knee cap. Then I do single arm external rotations lying on my side. Finally, I do internal rotations (db) lying on my back, elbows tucked to sides, and lower arms perpendicular to my body. The internal rotations I find the best, because I never have done them before and never hear people talk much about them.
I think I big part of my success in the gym is getting out in a timely fashion. That’s why the hr. max thing is so important to me.
‘The internal rotations I find the best, because I never have done them before and never hear people talk much about them.’
Your internal rotators (subscapularis) get worked any ways when you bench or chin so training isn’t necessary unless a specific strength deficit is present.
i’m with creed on that issue. as much pressing as we do with westside templates, internal rotators should not need much. but i do like the idea that you perform one exercise for internals per two exercises for externals. that would seem to be just fine for most!
Where do I train. Hmmm. Well without making this a book, I train speed squats and speed bench at a commercial Gym. Quite honestly, it is amazing what we get away with there. (band/chain, etc.) However, we are respectful and always clean-up/organize when finished. We train pulls off the floor and shirt bench at home because we have a platform and suede bench. As a meet approaches, and just to keep from getting too comfortable in one place, we train periodically at a private gym, too. Particularly squats to work off the stands, get some added intensity from having everybody in one place, and determine meet prompts.
BTW, for rotators, check out the cuban roll. You can search it here. This is one of my favorites. Good luck.